Fox Suspension Advice

[stpete]

I got my '93 GT out and driving around now and the suspension is worn out, to say the least. I know the first things I want to do are shocks/struts and subframe connectors/torque tube reinforcement. I'd like to do shocks and struts first since the thing is tough to drive. I'm not sure what's on the car now, but I couldn't get the alignment in specs for caster/camber and there is a lot of bump steer. So, I'll get caster/camber plates also.

I want to have a plan going forward to what I ultimately want on the car so I can start upgrading piece by piece. I plan on doing a 5-lug conversion and bigger disks (probably cobra) with 17" wheels. Right now, I have a dedicated race car (a SCCA Spec Miata). But, with my son going to college in a couple years, I can see getting rid of that. For now, the Mustang will be a street car and maybe take it to screw around at some local autocrosses without having to tow the race car. But, once the race car is gone I'll want to do some track days with the Mustang also. The Miata used to be a street/track day car and I would like to wind up back to that situation.

I don't want to spend Griggs type money on a suspension, but still want to have some fun with the car and hopefully not be dreaming of a Miata again.

When I did the Miata, I did it with no plan and put 5 different suspensions on it in 10 years. This time I'm looking for a plan that puts me in a good situation in the end. I expect it to take several years to piece together and will be looking for used stuff while I go. While I would love to go IRS, lets take that off the table for now due to cost.

Any advice of what works for others who like to run their cars on road race courses is appreciated. But, I do need to be able to start with some not too expensive shocks and struts as a first step. Thanks.

 

[2000xp8]

Piece together everything from the maximum motorsports catalog.
It can literally be done one part at a time. Prices are reasonable for above average parts.

Start with subframe connectors, they make the car much more solid, along with protecting the car from the twisting damage.

Then do the front struts and CC plates at the same time.

I'd also try and figure out what springs you have, that could be part of the problem. Probably not stock if it won't align.

 

[Ipaman]

I recently installed steeda sport springs with the Koni sport adjustable shocks and had great results. Sounds like you might be looking for something a little more than that though.

 

[skyline247]

Subscribing to see what you end up with. I can use this for my long term plans.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[A5literMan]

Completely agree with 2000xp8. I'd go that route.

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

I got my '93 GT out and driving around now and the suspension is worn out, to say the least. I know the first things I want to do are shocks/struts and subframe connectors/torque tube reinforcement. I'd like to do shocks and struts first since the thing is tough to drive. I'm not sure what's on the car now, but I couldn't get the alignment in specs for caster/camber and there is a lot of bump steer. So, I'll get caster/camber plates also.

I want to have a plan going forward to what I ultimately want on the car so I can start upgrading piece by piece. I plan on doing a 5-lug conversion and bigger disks (probably cobra) with 17" wheels. Right now, I have a dedicated race car (a SCCA Spec Miata). But, with my son going to college in a couple years, I can see getting rid of that. For now, the Mustang will be a street car and maybe take it to screw around at some local autocrosses without having to tow the race car. But, once the race car is gone I'll want to do some track days with the Mustang also. The Miata used to be a street/track day car and I would like to wind up back to that situation.

I don't want to spend Griggs type money on a suspension, but still want to have some fun with the car and hopefully not be dreaming of a Miata again.

When I did the Miata, I did it with no plan and put 5 different suspensions on it in 10 years. This time I'm looking for a plan that puts me in a good situation in the end. I expect it to take several years to piece together and will be looking for used stuff while I go. While I would love to go IRS, lets take that off the table for now due to cost.

Any advice of what works for others who like to run their cars on road race courses is appreciated. But, I do need to be able to start with some not too expensive shocks and struts as a first step. Thanks.

I understand cost is an issue, it's something everyone has to deal with but as the Devils advocate I'll say the obvious, it costs more money to do it TWICE. Buying inexpensive shocks and struts now only to have to replace them later for something functional for corner carving seems to be a waste. Why not just use what you have already and save for some MM coil overs?

If IRS is on your to do list then most upgrades to the rear end is just a waste of money. I know it's an expense because I'm doing it right now myself along with OEM Cobra 13" brakes up front. The IRS will help your ride comfort, improve handling, weight distribution and gets you 5 lug all at the same time. I know it's not what you want to hear but just go ahead and piece that together along with coil overs instead of the band-aid inexpensive parts that you will throw away because they have no resell value.

In the mean time I'd suggest the full length MM (maximum motorsports) subframe connectors, new sway bar bushings, new control arm bushings and new bushings for the rear end if needed, torque box reinforcements for the lower control arms only. If you go IRS the upper reinforcements would be a waste of money. Most of these parts/upgrades should carry over as your budget increases.

 

[Black1987]

2000xp8 hit the nail on head with Maximum Motorsports (MM). They have anywhere from full on kit to build piece by piece, but with their quantity/name expect to pay $$$.

This is some info I have found through trying to upgrade my stang’s suspension. Grain of salt

The sub frame connectors (full lengths) are a must for our cars, and if you can get the torque box reinforcements welded at the same time, that would be great for when you set up your rear later on.

If you are looking on picking pieces up here and there. Look into Strange shocks and struts (10 way adjustability all the way around). Koni and Blistein are great too, just $$$. Just make sure whatever struts you buy, are compatible with the caster/chamber(MM) and possibly later a coil over kit (MM). Some kits do not fit certain struts and vice versa.

Raceland also has a different type of coil over set up for a certain type of folks.

K-members: the stock one is good and MM one isn't much lighter but allows more accessibility. I personally like UPR 1018 mild steel kit because its lifetime warranty and can be used with stock arms. If you intend on autocross,;I believe they (UPR) still will beef up the current design with gussets for a few extra dollars for road race applications.

Springs (if you don't plan on coil overs) Look at the 93 Cobra R for starting point for spring rates

Brake Pads- Hawk or EBC are the primary ones.

5 Lug set-up for ease of mind, pick up a set up 94/95 Spindles for keeping close to stock geometry. The 96+ spindles MM doesn’t recommend due to the offset, but people have ran them without major problems.

For the rear suspension look into MM Torque Arm/ Panhard Bar set up and Steeda 5 link set up. I say look into them in order to gauge on what type of parts to purchase. This is to avoid buying things twice or stuff not needed.


Just know that running either MM, Steeda, or even Griggs rear set ups; a 31 spline 01 Cobra IRS or 03/04 Cobra IRS can be had for a similar price. Do waste money on the 99 28 spline unless you want to.

Furthermore, since you are buying piece by piece look into the LMR tublars control arms for $130ish bucks. They are good enough, but you may have to upgrade to some adjustable uppers if you lower the car and need to adjust the pinion angle.

Gears: Use your powerband , trans ratio and tire size to determine the gears you want for your application. 3:55s and 373s are popular.

Master Cylinder: There’s a sticky here on this site that hits almost every point
Brakes - The Ultimate 4-lug/5-lug Brake Conversion/upgrade Thread | Mustang Forums at StangNet

Lastly the steering rack and pinion. A quick ratio can be had but I like the 03/04 cobra rack ZM personally. Only negative is you need a solid hybrid shaft from MM for any SN95 rack. The rack can be purchased thru Rockauto, Amazon, Advance and etc, under Cardone Remanufactured Rack and Pinion Complete Unit - Hydraulic Power Part No 22-2000. You also have to run Taurus tie rods if you run 4 lug or just use the SN95 tie rods if you do go 5 lug.

What is the good thing about having to run a solid steering shaft without exception of the price?

Is that the stock set up uses a rag joint which can cause understeer and snap oversteer also. Eliminating the rag joint, reduces this and gives you a better feel of the road IMO



Oh I forgot sway bars….pick your poison

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

2000xp8 hit the nail on head with Maximum Motorsports (MM). They have anywhere from full on kit to build piece by piece, but with their quantity/name expect to pay $$$.





K-members: the stock one is good and MM one isn't much lighter but allows more accessibility. I personally like UPR 1018 mild steel kit because its lifetime warranty and can be used with stock arms. If you intend on autocross,;I believe they (UPR) still will beef up the current design with gussets for a few extra dollars for road race applications.


5 Lug set-up for ease of mind, pick up a set up 94/95 Spindles for keeping close to stock geometry. The 96+ spindles MM doesn’t recommend due to the offset, but people have ran them without major problems.


Just know that running either MM, Steeda, or even Griggs rear set ups; a 31 spline 01 Cobra IRS or 03/04 Cobra IRS can be had for a similar price. Do waste money on the 99 28 spline unless you want to.

Mostly good advice but I feel the need to comment on a couple of things. Some manufacturers build their K members to save some weight and be strong for a specific purpose like UPR but I feel they designed their Kmember specifically for going straight especially since their a drag racing focused company. MM designed theirs to make the Mustang handle better in turns and give the Mustang better steering geometry as well as clearance.

MM doesn't recommend the 96+ spindles being used with stock K members mainly due to bump steer issues.

• Bad idea: Swapping to 1996-04 spindles while retaining the stock k-member.

• Good idea: Swapping to 1996-04 spindles with a Maximum Motorsports K-member installation. This will reduce the stack of bumpsteer spacers on the steering arm by about 0.96", compared to the 1994-95 spindles.

Lastly, what's wrong with the 99' Cobra IRS for autoX or road coarse? I know it's weak for drag racing and 5k rpm launches but I don't see how 28 spline can't handle some turns when upgraded with PU subframe bushings and Derlin control arm & diff bushings. Even the 03/04 IRS needs that upgrade so it doesn't snap the 31 spline axles. I honestly have no experience with how strong or weak the 99' IRS is but I'm about to very soon.

 

[Black1987]

Mostly good advice but I feel the need to comment on a couple of things. Some manufacturers build their K members to save some weight and be strong for a specific purpose like UPR but I feel they designed their Kmember specifically for going straight especially since their a drag racing focused company. MM designed theirs to make the Mustang handle better in turns and give the Mustang better steering geometry as well as clearance.

MM doesn't recommend the 96+ spindles being used with stock K members mainly due to bump steer issues.

• Bad idea: Swapping to 1996-04 spindles while retaining the stock k-member.

• Good idea: Swapping to 1996-04 spindles with a Maximum Motorsports K-member installation. This will reduce the stack of bumpsteer spacers on the steering arm by about 0.96", compared to the 1994-95 spindles.

Lastly, what's wrong with the 99' Cobra IRS for autoX or road coarse? I know it's weak for drag racing and 5k rpm launches but I don't see how 28 spline can't handle some turns when upgraded with PU subframe bushings and Derlin control arm & diff bushings. Even the 03/04 IRS needs that upgrade so it doesn't snap the 31 spline axles. I honestly have no experience with how strong or weak the 99' IRS is but I'm about to very soon.

To clarify about the 96+ spindle I spoke of keeping stock geometry operating under the assumption of spending $$$ on a MM k-member was out of the question due to budgeting. That money and weight could be saved and put elsewhere.

The reason I mentioned 28 spline IRS wasting money is because of personal experience ( in a 99 Cobra not a fox) of snapping half shafts and 03/04 has additional bracing/ thicker half-shafts for near the same money.
Its a few and far between on the longevity of these IRSs, but just keep in mind no matter what upgrades are done; the wheel hop will still occur if the tire is too hard of a wall thickness.

Nonetheless, hope you got a good one and good luck on the swap

 

[2000xp8]

These guys have some more advanced thoughts, but for now i'd keep it simple.
If you just stick with the MM catalog, you can pretty much piece meal the entire suspension to build one of their complete kits without having to drop $2500 all at once.
K member is an end of the road project, the stock one works just fine, the aftermarkets ones aren't much lighter and they are expensive to setup. They offer little value from a performance standpoint, especially when you are on a budget.
All the parts you buy will work with pretty much any 5 lug setup in the future, so no worries there.

 

[stpete]

It sounds like the overwhelming majority is for MM. I was definitely planning on MM subframe connectors and probably caster camber plates (either MM or Steeda). I do like the MM packages.

My immediate need is struts/shocks and caster camber plates. The car is literally hopping over some bumps. Very unsat over highway expansion joints. I may go with MM caster/camber, MM subframe connectors, and some cheap stockish shocks/struts to get by. Eventually replace the $150 cheapo with the Bilsteins with MM springs or coil over conversion. It's pushing a grand just to get the Bilsteins and caster/camber. Can't do that with the car purchase and all the other stuff it has needed still on the credit card. Once I have that, I'll move on to 5-lug for brake upgrades. My current plan is 94-95 spindles and hopefully cobra brake upgrade.

Is there a true advantage of MM caster/camber plates over the Steeda?

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

You want to make sure that if you want to go coil over in the future that the CC plates will be compatible with them. For instance, my J&M cc plates work with my MM coil overs. Just depends on what you want.

 

[stpete]

You want to make sure that if you want to go coil over in the future that the CC plates will be compatible with them. For instance, my J&M cc plates work with my MM coil overs. Just depends on what you want.

So is the Steeda plate incompatible with MM coil overs? If that's the case, it's worth it to me to get the MM plates.

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

So is the Steeda plate incompatible with MM coil overs? If that's the case, it's worth it to me to get the MM plates.

I would call MM and find out. That's what I did. They are great people and will talk you through everything and won't try to sell you on stuff you don't need.

 

[2000xp8]

I like to try and stay brand inclusive, unless the price is way off.
No sense mixing and matching parts over what appears to be a $30 difference in price according to both websites.
I wouldn't risk complications (not saying there is any using steeda plates) for 30 bucks.

Poor handling over bumps could be more than alignment and bumpsteer.
Check your ball joints. There are videos online of how to.

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

Lets not forget to save 6% with Stangnet forum discount code at LMR.com GVMWJ4GQ

 

[A5literMan]

When my car was doing that I added mm cc plates,new shocks/struts,and a bumpsteer kit. With an alignment and new tires. Problem was solved for me. I highly recommend mm. I have their coilover kit(not initially-I switched later),plates,frame connectors,and rear lca.

 

[stykthyn]

I'm just going to chime in. My MM components are beyond my expectations. In the past I have purchased billet depot or UPR(Same company) and MM parts are FAR superior in quality.

 

[89oem]

My .02 get KYB gas adjust shocks/struts and eibach pro springs and mm cc plates and itll fix all handling/ride issues and make the car tight and fun to drive. Tried and true for about 90% of the folks here, I ran it for years until I went to the full mm etc stuff...

And it wont cost you a bundle right now either.

 

[stpete]

I like to try and stay brand inclusive, unless the price is way off.
No sense mixing and matching parts over what appears to be a $30 difference in price according to both websites.
I wouldn't risk complications (not saying there is any using steeda plates) for 30 bucks.

Poor handling over bumps could be more than alignment and bumpsteer.
Check your ball joints. There are videos online of how to.

This is after I replaced a ball joint and all tie rods. Had one ball joint and inner tie rod bad. The other outer tie rod had no boot, but was OK (still replaced). Rock Auto had tie rods on closeout so I got all 4 for $25 shipped. The alignment after parts replacement is where I found out caster/camber is out. One side is not too bad, the other is. Don't see any evidence of damage on that side. Fender has original tags on it, so doesn't appear to have been hit there. Springs and shocks appear to be original to the car (109K miles).

I may be able to get some unused Steeda CC plates from a guy that bought and never installed them. So could be less than half the price of the MM. Having trouble pinning him down, so we'll see.