Suspension Help

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by 5.02GO, Nov 12, 2005.


  1. SmokinSaleen

    SmokinSaleen New Member

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    I wanted a new stock ride on my '86 vert gt. I added new MM full lenth subframes, KYB shocks and struts, springs, isolators and it rides new. I am very pleased. I have about $500 in parts alltogether in this.
     
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  2. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

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    You're welcome. I wish I had read your first post slower initially. Anyway, the OEM parts were Macpherson, and I suppose you could hunt them down outside a Ford dealer. Dealers do like to bend you over the parts counter. Most other parts stores are going to sell you Monroe Sensatrack stuff as a stock replacement, and they are a sound product. Not what I would consider an upgrade, but I'm not sure that's what you want.

    The panhard I suggested on the off chance that you wanted to improve your handling performance beyond how it was when new- as I said, the clumsy four link rear is the biggest problem with these cars. It is simply a BAD design. Everyone goes and puts on lowering springs and adjustable shocks and think they really have something when they only bandaided the problem. It feels way better, but the limits of the car haven't improved, it's no more predictable, controllable or forgiving when the limits approached, and there isn't a whole lot of warning- because the rear is steering the car, not you and it is in control. It isn't true, but I'll go to my grave saying that the phrase "snap oversteer" was made just for the Fox Mustang. Stiffer shocks and springs just distract you from the real problem which isn't fixed, and for most drivers that's good enough. I'm not under the impression you want to compromise your ride quality for the illusion of more control. However, if you aren't a very aggressive driver, than you may not need a panhard either. The single biggest improvement you can make in your performance handling is tires, and you've done it.
    Regardless, which company to go (if you decide to) with depends on what's important to you. You need to talk to the major suspension companies and find out from the horses mouth what the pluses are to their design, and what compromises you'll have to make. Some attach more structurally sound to the frame, some don't allow you to run tail pipes, some have aluminum rods instead of steel (so they won't tweak your frame in a side collision) etc. Same with watts links, although they are (arguably superior to the panhard on the track, but) not always as easy to live with on the street. Then just go with whoever you're comfortable with. I stand behind the Maximum Motorsports design, but I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the makers who race what they sell... any one of them will be better than what Ford was too cheap to put in themselves.
     
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  3. 5.02GO

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    Okay guys, i went to the local ford dealership today and priced shocks and struts. Front struts are $65 each. The rear shocks are $25 each. I think that is awesome. I figured it would double that. So i think that is good news for people who want to keep a stock feel. I asked about the quad shocks. The guy said that he didnt show a part number for that so he would'nt be able to get those.

    I also priced sway bar endlinks. They were $20 each. He had those there at the dealership. I went ahead and purchased them. I told him that to hold the shocks/struts because i wanted to think about it first. I forgot to price the spring isolators. I can get those from www.50resto.com anyway.

    Questions...........

    What about lower front control arms from ford. The description says that they have low friction ball joints and that it is standard on 94-95 stangs. It also says that it is a dramatic improvement on ride quality. Do they?

    Rear upper control arms. They are supposed to have a stiffer bushing in them wich improves handling and traction. Do they?

    Panhard rod kit from 50resto.com. They have one made from aluminum(light duty). Part number is HPM-5600-BZ. It is $269.95. They also have one for medium duty made from mild steel. Part number is HPM-5601-BZ. Its $289.95

    Thanks.
     
    #63
  4. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    Energy suspension endlinks are better and where only $20 for the set, not each.

    Be careful with a PHB purchase, some only fit around certain brand exhausts.

    If you need new ball joints repace the front control arms, if not leave them for now.

    There is about a million sets of upper rear control arms to pick from. The aftermarket FMS ones are a waste of money.

    And as i said, stock shocks don't behave the same on a lowered car with different spring rates.
     
    #64
  5. Shakerhood

    Shakerhood Well-Known Member

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    The M3075A Lower A Arms for the Front are VERY nice, but they are extremely hard to find unless Ford Racing has finally got them off National Back Order.
     
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  6. 5.02GO

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    Think i am gonna get some motorsport lower a arms for sure.

    Where and what to get for quad shocks?
     
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  7. STANGateURlilSS

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    the 93 cobra r had stiff suspension.. 750/850lb progressive rate front springs 240.260lb rear progressive rate rear springs.. thats definately not softer then a stock 5.0l..

    31mm front sway bars & 21mm rear sway bar
     
    #67
  8. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

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    Unless you're getting wheelhop when you take off, don't worry about the quad shocks yet. In the event that you get good rear lower control arms with poly bushings, it should pretty much negate the need for them anyway.

    As 2000 said, don't worry about A arms unless you need ball joints. When you do, it makes a lot more sense than trying to replace the stock ones, as changing ball joints on the Fox is a PITA and the newer ones are far superior. Not worth doing until you need it though. You can check them by putting a jack under the control arm to get the tire off the ground yet still have the suspension in compression, and lift on the tire with a prybar. If the ball joint is bad, you'll know it.

    I'd also wait on the PHB until you get the new shocks and bushings in and see how it feels to you first. If you still think you'd like it to track better, than go very slow making a purchase. They aren't all created equal, and only you know which one is best for your application. Make sure it will work with your exhaust, differential cover, etc... and that it attaches directly to the sub frame and has provisions to reinforce the frame at that point. Good luck
     
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  9. 5.02GO

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    Okay stangbear. Here is my theory on the lower a arms. I just figured that i had all that other crap out of the way and apart that i would just go ahead and replace them. It kinda makes sense, doesnt it? My fox has 140,000 on the clock.

    When you spoke of "bushings", exactely which ones are you refering too?
    Now, i did purchase sway bar endlinks today, oem. Yeah, i know. They arent as good as the polys but i wanted to try to knock out road noise and vibration where i can. I believe 2000XP is a little dissapointed in my choice on that.

    I dont have any wheel hopping at this time. I may just forget the quads.

    I never knew how complex suspension crap really was. I am SO glad i posted this thread. I am SO glad you guys are helping.--thank you.

    Any other parts i may need gentlemen?

    If all goes as planned, i am gonna do the "suspension job" around christmas.

    Thanks again guys.:hail2:
     
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  10. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    The endlinks didn't matter that much, road noise won't come through the endlink side either.
    I just figured you could save a few bucks and get a better product.
    The ES ones tighten up the suspension a bit, and are a minor + to the handling.

    All in all though, not that big of a deal.

    What exactly is your budget on this project? You seem to be throwing it out the window. If you say you are willing to spend XXX dollars, we can tell you everything you should get while doing this project.
     
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  11. HISSIN50

    HISSIN50 "How long does it take to get help in here?
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    I will add that the pry test can be a little misleading on Ford ball joints with wear indicators, since they have a spring inside them.

    I will add that, as Eric and others suggested, it can take forever to get the 3075's. So if you think you might need them, order in advance.

    Good luck.
     
    #71
  12. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

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    Or, just get the tubular ones from Maximum Motorsports, which are both lighter and stronger than stock, can be ordered with offset geomoetry which extends the wheelbase 3/4" as well as stock geometry, can be ordered with either poly or delrin bushings, and come with installed low friction ball joints of the '96+ Cobra variety which are even better than the '94-'95 style. In stock, as of last week...
     
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  13. 5.02GO

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    I really dont have a budget. There is a reason i said $500 earlier. I have read on previous posts from here and the corral, that when an individual ask about upgrades and stuff people just start blurting out mods and "things to do". Befor you know it, you've got $2000 in parts to get. That you may or may not even need.

    I apologize for being deceptive. You, hissin, stangbear and shaker have held to my advertised budget more than i have.:nice: Thank you

    Officially, lets go with NO MORE than $1000 on this job.

    I feel like you all have narrowed everything down for me already. One of the best things about this whole suspension thread is that there has been an explanation behind every suggestion. Which is GREAT!

    I think there has been over 600 members that have read this thread.
     
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  14. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    Well for $1000. I'd have:

    MM or global west full lenth subframes $150
    Eibach pro kit $200
    Shocks $300
    ES isolators and endlinks $75
    Upper and lower rear control arms $300 (should be total)
    And if you can fit another $150-$200 into the budget i'd get some CC plates.

    I'd forget about the quads for now.
     
    #74
  15. Shakerhood

    Shakerhood Well-Known Member

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    You can get brand new Motorcraft Quads from PPI for dirt cheap, when I did my suspension replacement, I included them as the cost was VERY minimal!
     
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  16. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

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    Hmmm... well, I knew you didn't want to blow lots of money, but I really wasn't thinking about your stated budget as much as what you would be happiest with. You're priorities are different than most of us, and it took awhile to figure you out. If I thought you needed a $1500+ suspension to be happy, I'd have suggested it. ON the contrary, I think you'd be disappointed.

    Now that I know you have no budget constraints, I think you need... the same settup I said before.
     
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  17. 5.02GO

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    Thanks stangbear.


    Shaker, i looked on ppi's website and could not find any quads. Only quads i have been able to locate is on summits website. However, they are around $70 + each.

    Can springs go bad? I mean where they are compressed for so long from the cars weight. Can they form a "memory" of their compressed state?

    If so, what may be some symptoms?

    thank you
     
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  18. HISSIN50

    HISSIN50 "How long does it take to get help in here?
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    Springs do fatigue simply from having the weight of the car upon them.
     
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  19. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

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    The only way to really tell is with multi axis rate and load testing equipment. In other words, you can't- for the most part. At least not with any precision or accuracy. If they're really bad and you have a newer (or lower mileage) one to compair it to, you may be able to see that one is more compressed, but that's about it. Or, if you are just positive that it has more body roll in the corners than it used to, they could be getting soft.
     
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  20. HISSIN50

    HISSIN50 "How long does it take to get help in here?
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    Jess, I gotta say it is nice to have you back man. :nice:
     
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