swapping to carb
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crazypete said:You rang?
Been snowed in for a long time now and sorta fell away from the stang. But now with spring around the corner, I'm all fired up for it. Greasing down the entire bottom cause I "GASP" noticed a spot of rust down there!
So here is my input for the carb vs efi debate. EFI is a good system but costs a lot of money to tune and has a great many points of failure: fuel pump, FP regulators, dozens of sensors, injectors, wiring....as my esteemed colleage mentioned, its all 13 years old now. Plus you change something and now the EEC has no idea what to do with all the air. Well, now you need a recalibrated MAF, new injectors, another fuel pump....all $$$. I remember seeing pages of "which maf/injectors/TB should I run" threads. Also the uqiuitous "why wont my car start?" threads.
With carb, you have 3 points of failure: the carb, it's fuel pump and your ignition system. The fuel is easy enough to measure, the ignition can be tested with a timing light. The carb? I can replace my entire fuel metering system in the same amount of money it takes to replace a single MAF. I upgraded my heads? rejet = $5. EFI = new injectors $180 + MAF $200 + TB $100 (?), maybe new fuel pump = $75...well you get the idea. The jets take about 5 minutes to change while installing all that takes much longer.
Now about failure....when my efi died on the road....well, thats it. I'm getting towed home for a 1 week probing session to figure out which circuit is not cooperating. Last time my carb died (3 times now since I've converted 4 years ago, 1 intake leak, 2 carb base leaks, all fixed within 10 minutes once I got it home), I sprayed carb cleaner at it and restarted it.
Plus, you can stare at your EEC and you will have no idea what it's doing. Now you can stare at your carb and its very understandable. Levers, springs, pumps, cables, all stuff you can grok. If something goes afoul, your really can mcguyver a paper clip in there and drive it home.
If you dont like what your eec is doing...tough. You can get a chip or a tweecer, both $$$. If you dont like what your carb is doing, you walk up front and turn some screws.
Finally, daily driving. I DD this carbed mustang for 2 years and I have no complaints. I mean winter driving too (hence the greasing I mentioned above). Most of the folks that talk about non idling cars and pigs over carburate. Vacuum signal is EVERYTHING. People are so used to bigger is better and they slap a 750 on a mild 302 and then complain how their car has no throttle response. I run a 570 vacuum secondary on a custom cammed afr165 headed 302. Talk about throttle response!! It really pegs you into the seat, gets over 20 mpg, starts on the first or second turnover. Vacuum signal is EVERYTHING with a carb.
So I hope I put in a good argument for the carb side of things. Let me know if you need any help with your conversion if you decide to go for it.
Good Luck!
Pete
Pete is one of the few guys that did his homework and did the job the right way from the start.
Far too many of the EFI to carb threads are started by guys who don't have a clue how a carb works and even less of a clue on how EFI works. They choose carb because it seems to be the lesser of two evils. Shortcuts like trying to use the EFI computer to control the fuel pump or ignition are not the right way to do the job.
You rang?
Been snowed in for a long time now and sorta fell away from the stang. But now with spring around the corner, I'm all fired up for it. Greasing down the entire bottom cause I "GASP" noticed a spot of rust down there!
So here is my input for the carb vs efi debate. EFI is a good system but costs a lot of money to tune and has a great many points of failure: fuel pump, FP regulators, dozens of sensors, injectors, wiring....as my esteemed colleage mentioned, its all 13 years old now. Plus you change something and now the EEC has no idea what to do with all the air. Well, now you need a recalibrated MAF, new injectors, another fuel pump....all $$$. I remember seeing pages of "which maf/injectors/TB should I run" threads. Also the uqiuitous "why wont my car start?" threads.
With carb, you have 3 points of failure: the carb, it's fuel pump and your ignition system. The fuel is easy enough to measure, the ignition can be tested with a timing light. The carb? I can replace my entire fuel metering system in the same amount of money it takes to replace a single MAF. I upgraded my heads? rejet = $5. EFI = new injectors $180 + MAF $200 + TB $100 (?), maybe new fuel pump = $75...well you get the idea. The jets take about 5 minutes to change while installing all that takes much longer.
Now about failure....when my efi died on the road....well, thats it. I'm getting towed home for a 1 week probing session to figure out which circuit is not cooperating. Last time my carb died (3 times now since I've converted 4 years ago, 1 intake leak, 2 carb base leaks, all fixed within 10 minutes once I got it home), I sprayed carb cleaner at it and restarted it.
Plus, you can stare at your EEC and you will have no idea what it's doing. Now you can stare at your carb and its very understandable. Levers, springs, pumps, cables, all stuff you can grok. If something goes afoul, your really can mcguyver a paper clip in there and drive it home.
If you dont like what your eec is doing...tough. You can get a chip or a tweecer, both $$$. If you dont like what your carb is doing, you walk up front and turn some screws.
Finally, daily driving. I DD this carbed mustang for 2 years and I have no complaints. I mean winter driving too (hence the greasing I mentioned above). Most of the folks that talk about non idling cars and pigs over carburate. Vacuum signal is EVERYTHING. People are so used to bigger is better and they slap a 750 on a mild 302 and then complain how their car has no throttle response. I run a 570 vacuum secondary on a custom cammed afr165 headed 302. Talk about throttle response!! It really pegs you into the seat, gets over 20 mpg, starts on the first or second turnover. Vacuum signal is EVERYTHING with a carb.
So I hope I put in a good argument for the carb side of things. Let me know if you need any help with your conversion if you decide to go for it.
Good Luck!
Pete
You wouldn't happen to have a guide on how I could carb swap my 302, like what carb, fuel pump, etc to buy? I'm tired on having problems on my efi
Crazypete has been gone a long time - maybe 8 years or more.
Unless you are a total bonehead, it is easier to fix the EFI than to swap to carb. The EFI will diagnose the problems and tell you what's wrong. Carb can't do that.
Just for an introduction, I have been driving and fixing 5.0 EFI Mustangs for 24 years and over 300,000 miles with 2 different 89 Mustangs. If you think I am just a bunch of hot air and don't know what I am talking about, just Google jrichker and see that you get...
Start here to fix your EFI problems...
Dump codes sticky
Look at the top of the 5.0 Tech forum where the sticky threads are posted. One of them is how to dump the computer codes. Codes may be present even if the CEL (Check Engine Light) isn’t on. You don’t need a code reader or scanner – all you need is a paper clip, or if your lady friend has a hair pin, that will do the job.
I highly suggest that you read it and follow the instructions to dump the codes. http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-to-pull-codes-from-eec4.889006/
Last edited:
This.
Due to the negative stigma surround most carb swaps, it tends to lower the value of a car. Someone on the search for a nice 87-93 notch will pop the hood, see a carb on a stockish 302, and be disappointed. It's one thing to build a stout combo centered around a carb, but to swap due to trouble with the EFI system is a little backwards IMHO.
Ask a few questions, spend some time under the hood, and there's enough shared knowledge on the internet to solve pretty much all the issues surrounding the 5.0 EFI setup.
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
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