TCP power R&P now only 2500

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by corpse, Mar 5, 2002.


  1. corpse

    corpse Founding Member

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    more the merrier! At minimum, we need bracket specs, tie rod specs I'd think, maybe centerlink measurements? And AutoCad files are plenty good for me - I've got that here along with the viewer - and then once that's done I can show em to my bro to figure out whats involved exactly in doing em... I know it'll be a breeze for him. Do we know anyone with a 69 or 70 with the tcp rack on it?
    #21
  2. Psydwaze

    Psydwaze Founding Member

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  3. gp001

    gp001 Founding Member

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    Re: Here I am...

    I don't think any of us have any problems with you. I'm sure you don't make the pricing/distributor decisions. I was just relaying what you said in a previous post. I don't know if that's what you were told, heard, or just got the impression around the shop.

    If I were you though, I wouldn't post anything in this thread. While I (we) welcome your input and insight, I would hate to see it cost you your job in case this gets ugly in anyway. (Or you could e-mail it to one of us who could post it with no ties to Total Cash Pilfers)
    #23
  4. xoxbxfx

    xoxbxfx Founding Member

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    I must agree with GP001, you dont want to get in trouble. Your job is more important than us *****ing. However, if I were you, I would let your bosses know about this thread and see what they say. I would erase your comments.

    All *****ing is torward the company and nothing towards you. I thank you for admitting that you even work with them. When people started getting mad, I would have kept my mouth shut:D ;)
    #24
  5. Dave_C

    Dave_C Founding Member

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    Guys,

    I'm a member of both the Fordnatics and Classic Mustangs mailing lists. A longtime member of those lists, Sixto Bernal, has been working on a system like what you are talking about.

    He is using a junkyard GM rack and home fabbed brackets, etc. I just sent him an e-mail asking him to stop in and an overview of his system. Would give a good starting point.

    Later,

    David Cole
    #25
  6. sixto

    sixto New Member

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    hi guys,

    thanks David for inviting me to come and chat. I have been active on the FordNatics,
    Fairlane, and other lists since the early 90's.

    as he mentioned i have been working on an alternative to the TCP
    rack for a few months now. it's taken that long because i tend to work slowly.

    please take a look at the webpages i've put together for a good overview of what i'm up to.

    http://home.pacbell.net/ssixto/automotive/R&P/R&P.html

    the goal is to put together a kit that will fit most of the late '60's Fords. it will not be a bolt-in
    kit but instead will require some drilling, and perhaps welding of the drivers side mounting bracket.
    this would be to achieve an optimum angle between the u-joints.

    i've been aware of the TCP kit since Terry was working at Sacramento Mustang, where the kit was originally developed. i have notes somewhere of several conversations he and i had way back when.

    at this point i think my kit will come in at around $500-$600.

    however, i want to have my car running with it for a solid month before going into production.
    the GM J-car rack has only been installed twice to my knowledge, by Kelly Murray and Preston
    Peterson. my desing updates their efforts, and i believe makes for a much stronger installation.

    i'm happy to accept criticism, help, or brickbats...
    #26
  7. BigGuy

    BigGuy New Member

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    We're making progress!!

    Sixto's site is awesome. I am really interested in that design because it is much different than the TCP design.

    From the pics on sixto's site, it looks like TCP does not use the GM rack. Maybe we aren't giving TCP enough credit (is it possible that they make the thing themselves???), or maybe we just haven't found the right part. ;) However, that doesn't mean the J-car rack won't work.

    Here's a question: is there a problem with replacing the crossmember with the rack? I would think that there would be unwanted loads on the rack if it had to take the place of the crossmember, but I trust TCP in their design. After all, everything I have seen from them is top quality (I just can't afford it now, and I don't like being played the fool with this new M/P deal).

    As far as suspension systems go, if there is a cad layout of the early mustang suspension dimensions, the optimum location for the tie rods will be easy to find. When I get time I'll make some measurements, unless anyone out there has already done it.
    #27
  8. Dave_C

    Dave_C Founding Member

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    All this is some excellent info. Going to have to look at doing something to mine. Was thinking about an MII setup. Going to have to rethink that now.

    Later,

    David Cole
    #28
  9. PickupMan

    PickupMan Founding Member

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    Ok Here is my .02 worth. I'll help out in any way I can to get this thing off the ground. Hell there is a machine shop right next to my house! I was just glancing over what everyone has said and I'm sure we can do this. From looking at TCP rack they use the rack in place if the cross member. Why couldn't we make a Brace/mounting brackets that would hold the rack and replace the cross member? From the last photos on sixto site, that looks like the setup we need. Like I said I'll help out anyway possible. These is the machine shop right next to me and there are several U-pick junkyards near me. Kepp us updated corpse!
    #29
  10. burnout289

    burnout289 Founding Member

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    wow...i just want to share my amazement. it is awesome that everyone is coming together on this! so seldom do we see people join forces like this to accomplish something that before was mainly something to the effect of "wouldn't it be neat..."

    kudos to everyone! wish there was something i could do to assist, but i know nothing about steering geometry and even less about machining/fabrication. that, and i'm probably still going to go with the MII setup. [i think my car was 'tapped' at one point and the slight change in clearances made it so that headers could not fit. :( ]
    #30
  11. corpse

    corpse Founding Member

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    for sure - lots of good info coming down the pike - keep it up everyone :)

    As I get updates I will certainly post them here... Of course, we still need to get the detailed pics and/or install info from the TCP setup.

    I didn't realized the TCP unit REPLACED the cross-member? I dunno - I guess that seems like ALOT of street on the unit?

    My bro mentioned it's actually pretty easy to fabricate the p/w housing - and then simply put all the guts in it, like the power servo.. But there's no way I can get him to do any real R&D on this.. He's too busy to invest time into this - but he'll certainly produce a top-notch product if WE figure out what to do :)

    I'm *almost* tempted to buy the TCP unit for 2500 for the R&D unit :) hehe - then after I'm done with it go sell it on eBay (which I KNOW I would take a loss - but maybe it's worth it??) But, I'll be patient - I know a 69/70 owner out there has the rack unit installed for info.

    Once we figure out which rack is to be used - the mounting equipment is what would be sold - and then it's up to the end-user to go out and buy either a new power rack or get a cheap one from the boneyard - but at least its up to us what we buy. $20 junkyard unit or a new $200 unit - either way it's still cheap.. And even if a mounting kit was $500 - that still keeps the cost for a complete power R&P unit under 1,000.

    Of course I'm just thinking out loud with prices... But still, once the stuff is done - I say we make the specs and plans *PUBLIC DOMAIN* - so that means any person or company out there can use it and abuse it. If they want to make and sell a bolt-on package - so be it.. some stiff competition out there would bring the price to reasonable level! :) If you ask me - it's about time the public domain theory from the software industry is brought over into the car industry.. Cars are expensive enough as it is!

    Now - if you wanna pay a premium dollar for a top-notch unit, or some slick billet aluminum brackets - then so be it :)

    On a side note - we're working on a shock tower brace - and the shock "caps" (meant to replace the stock ones) are going to be a 1 piece billet cap - which the heims ends will connect too for the shock tower brace. - It'll be slick - and 1 piece :) The brace itself won't be round, but it'll be 3/4" thick aluminum hex rod (quite nice) - contact me off-list if your interested in something like this too (with export brace as well - same style).
    #31
  12. xoxbxfx

    xoxbxfx Founding Member

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    hey corpse, I would be interested in a full export brace/monte carlo bar like TCP sells. They look sweet, and the new shock tower caps would be nice also...

    You guys are mechanical geniuses
    #32
  13. burnout289

    burnout289 Founding Member

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    sign me up as well! i have a monte carlo bar already, but i'm interested in the brace. and hell, depending on what you pump out, i might even replace my MC bar, as well.
    #33
  14. Red Barchetta

    Red Barchetta Founding Member

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    Hi guys, newbie here. I've been following this thread and thought I'd try and help.

    For more info on the TCP rack, check out their webpage. They have a pdf file with the installation instructions. Here's a link:
    http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/download/pdf/instructions_rack_mustang.pdf

    I will have to say that their rack is top notch quality. They custom designed it in-house due to the reasons Psydwaze mentioned. I don't own any of their products, but I've driven their '67 fastback and it's everything we could ever hope for in modern steering in our cars. The only drawback is the price and hopefully we can find a solution for it.
    #34
  15. chepsk8

    chepsk8 Founding Member

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    Alternatives to TCP...

    hey guys!

    I'm running a thread right now about alternate systems! find it! I'm trying to compile as many different set-ups as possible, and may use it for an article. Could be a real interesting piece!

    I talked at length with the TCP guys at SAAC 25 two years ago, and do know why it is so much. the rack is a custom piece, and is expensive. It is based on the Cavalier idea. They have a HUGE insurance bill, since you are replacing a major component on your car. If it breaks, and you buy the farm, Lawyers aim for the deep pockets and the suppliers. Part of the purchase price is the insurance cost. that's the BIG reason I never started selling my own kit. (www.chepsk8.stangnet.com) I would have sold a starter kit for about $300 and have the customer purchase some parts. Sixto is in the same boat. Really sucks to have a great idea, and can sell a bunch, but fear of the lawyers kills it dead.

    Maybe someday.......

    Chepsk8
    #35
  16. corpse

    corpse Founding Member

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    chepsk8 - very true about hte lawyers - and explanations like that make sense. Which also reinforces my idea of making a system "public domain" with full specs. This way, no one person or company is selling this "kit", but rather components - kinda like cable descramblers. For example - if you sold a used rack, I sold a couple brackets, and someone else sold some hoses or something - and the parts weren't "specifically" for a steering upgrade - then I don't see any liability issues. ESPECIALLY if the design specs for the critical areas were supplied, not the actual parts. Then it's up to the stanger to have the parts fabricated - and most people wouldn't mind having a welding or machine shop to fab up the brackets if there were working design specs - tried and proven design specs.
    #36
  17. chepsk8

    chepsk8 Founding Member

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    maybe we can just eliminate the lawyers...

    Hmmmmm....

    If we round up all the lawyers, and send 'em to Afganistan, then we can have fun!!!!!

    Chepsk8
    #37
  18. Red Barchetta

    Red Barchetta Founding Member

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    TCP's KRC pump price.

    OK. I know at some point we need to move on, but this just blows me away. They used to sell the KRC pump kit for around $400 and now it's $800 as Corpse mentioned. Well, I did a little research and found this site:
    http://www.secureperformanceorder.c...=8&ClassID=103&SubclassID=1231&ProductID=5061

    For $280 you get the pump and resevoir. Another $40 for the Ford mounting kit. Your total price is now $320 and all that's left are the lines from the pump to the rack. Are you trying to tell me that the lines that TCP sell justify the extra $480? You've got to be friggin' kidding me!
    They might be the only manufacturers of the rack, but at least the pump you can find some place else A LOT cheaper. One less thing they can rip us off on.
    #38
  19. Red Barchetta

    Red Barchetta Founding Member

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    OK, I boo booed. The pump listed is not a KRC pump, but an Afco pump. I found it on http://www.dragraceafco.com which is similar to the other site. On Afco's site, it lists the pump with the Afco part number whereas the other site did not have the Afco designation. So you have to flip for the KRC 20000 pump, listed at $219 on the site, external resevoir ($72), mounting bracket and additional lines, but it's still not going to cost you $800.
    #39
  20. mustangford289

    mustangford289 Founding Member

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    AFCO

    I just got an AFCO catalog....they seem to have some nice stuff but catalog is mostly ful racing stuff......
    #40

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