Tf Heads Or Crate Engine

Discussion in '1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by StanglovR1, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. StanglovR1

    StanglovR1 Member

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    Looking for some guidance and a "what would you do" scenario.

    Basically I've got a late modle 01 with the bolt ons and stock PI heads. Currently at 102k and 12 years old, engine has had #2 plug blown out twice, but hasn't in over 15k (knock on wood) passenger valve train is making some noise nothing too noisey but sounds like some lash. Engine hasn't had timingchain or guides done yet. Still runs strong and smooth

    Obviously I want my dollar to go as far as it can. I would love to go F/I later down the road but a 12 year old 100,000+mile engine that's had a plug blown out twice makes me nervous. So I was looking at the trickflow heads and a mild cam which will cost around $3000.

    And thennnn I saw the crate motor (looking at MMR) a long block for under $5000 all forged and built to what ever spec you want.
     
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  2. flstang65

    flstang65 Well-Known Member

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    I would do the long block
     
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  3. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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    For $2k (if that is in fact, the only difference) then I'd go long block as well. I always try to avoid spending money twice if I can.
     
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  4. trombonedemon

    trombonedemon Well-Known Member

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    Can you do the head install your self? If not, then long block. 95 dollars an hour and dyno tune; Minus the satisfaction that your engine forged and has fresh bearings and seals. No brainer for the long block engine.
     
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  5. StanglovR1

    StanglovR1 Member

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    i would be doing the swao or heads myself. i was leaning towards the long block and have it built for FI
     
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  6. Mr. Rustypwnz

    Mr. Rustypwnz Advanced Member

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    Do you want to stay 2v? if not I would be putting some c heads on a teksid block for that kind of money.
     
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  7. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    No way in the world I pay $5k for a 2-valve long block when most of mine is fine.

    What are your goals? What do you want to do with the car?

    If you're wanting to do a budget bottom-end build, I'd look for a set of used 03/04 Cobra rods and pistons. A full set can be had for around $400. Throw in new bearings, freshen up the block at the machine shop, new gaskets, etc, and you're talking somewhere around or just over $1k for a built bottom end good to around 600 rwhp. Don't know how many 600 rwhp cars you've been around, but they're pretty freakin' fast.

    For your potential valvetrain issues, you can get a complete set of valves, springs, and lifters for $200 from MMR. (I don't know if you can find them cheaper elsewhere, you might be able to). And new chains/guides can be had for around $150.

    That's a total of around $1500 including miscellaneous stuff (gaskets, fluids, etc.).

    At that price, and assuming you can do your own work, you could build the bottom end AND do trickflow heads for $5k.

    If it were mine and I was looking to go fast, I'd do what I mentioned concerning the rods/pistons, replace the timing components as mentioned, and slap a TVS blower on it. Wouldn't bother with the TF heads. Assuming the rest of the drivetrain (clutch, transmission, axles) was up to par, that's a 550-600 rwhp car. Would easily run 10s with tires and a driver.
     
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  8. trombonedemon

    trombonedemon Well-Known Member

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    He really does need to do an exact figure b/c around can easily turn to a double amount. Stronger sleves, new bolts and studs. I don't Sneaky, 5 grand seems optimistic. Either way, efficacy is gonna be grand.
     
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  9. 99Blownstang

    99Blownstang Member

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    I wouldn't buy anything from MMR. I have had nothing but problems with them
     
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  10. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    Hard to put an exact number on used parts and machine shop prices. But I'll make an effort.

    I have personally had the opportunity to buy a low-mileage set of 03/04 Cobra rods and pistons for $400. This wasn't a friend-to-friend deal or anything, just a forum classified. I've been told by folks that know that you can easily get a good block clean up (honed, hot tanked, etc.) for $400, maybe less. Balancing should not be necessary. You can get King HP rod and main bearings from Summit for $230, or you can get Clevite H-series rod and mains for $220 from MHS. Pick your fancy. OEM main bolts are fine to 600 rwhp, as per MHS (I'd trust what they say). You can get new ones for $35 from there. Stock head bolts (good to a moderate level of boost [600 rwhp+]) are fine to use at least one extra time. I'm not sure what you're suggesting with 'stronger sleeves'.

    That's a total of $1055 on the engine build.

    The prices I listed for the valvetrain stuff earlier were actual numbers from either Summit or MMR. Not guesses. So that's $350 for valvetrain stuff.

    Or, if you were convinced on the Trickflow heads, MHS sells a complete, fully assembled set with all new parts and the cams of your choice for $3600. So that plus engine built ($1055) plus miscellaneous stuff (head gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, oil, coolant, etc.), and doing what I said for $5k is not unthinkable.
     
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  11. trombonedemon

    trombonedemon Well-Known Member

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    I was suggesting like a "cast-iron Darton sleeve incoroates cooling channels through the upper portion of the sleeve desighned to carry heat away from the piston." "Machining the block to accept a Darton sleeve means removing all deck surface and internal structure leaving only the outer case wall." O.p. may reccomend a paper-back book called "How to build max-performance 4.6 Liter Fotd Engines". Sean Hyland is the author
     
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  12. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    That is completely and totally unnecessary for a 600 rwhp car. Heck, it's probably unnecessary for a 1000 rwhp car.
     
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  13. trombonedemon

    trombonedemon Well-Known Member

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    :shrug:If he is gonna rebuild he might have scarring on the walls. Only my opinion.
     
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  14. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    A motor that is running should not have cylinders that couldn't be cleaned up by a simple hone.
     
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  15. trombonedemon

    trombonedemon Well-Known Member

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    Yea but, how many times one can hone a cylinder until parameters of each cylinder are not congruent. P.s. wanted to see your engine today sadly you were not at dyno day. Hope your dad and you and your car is doing well.
     
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  16. StanglovR1

    StanglovR1 Member

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    thanks for the indepth help. money is my limiting factor. as far as building a lower end i have no experience and would leave that to a shop. I feel that I need to buy heads due to the plug that kept blowing out.

    I would love to strap a kenne bell on some day, but my goal is power and reliability. 500+hp

    If I was to have a shop rebuild my current short block motor, bore, stroke, forged internals what do you think id be looking at pircewise said and done...? and should I get new heads?
     
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    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  17. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    You were there yesterday?! I was there all day spectating, but didn't run my car because I haven't had it retuned yet (since the gears, new CAI, blower port, and pulley). I'm scheduled to get it retuned this coming Thursday morning.

    Dad is doing fantastic, 100% full recovery. Thanks for asking. The car? Haha, I'm to the point of hoping rods and pistons stay inside the block. :rolleyes: :D

    I have no clue what the cost would be on labor for a big project like that. Every single thing done to my car, except tuning, I've done myself. But if I had to guess, it'd be a LOT.

    If you were going to have the heads off to build the bottom end, I'd Timesert all 8 holes. Supposedly, when done correctly, the Timeserts are significantly stronger than any stock casting.
     
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