THE 331 WENT ON THE DYNO TODAY!!! *VIDZ**

[WHITE94COBRA]

Grady and I both like Tq, he prefers his to be in the 1500 - 4k range, I like mine in the 2500 - 5k range. We had this debate a while ago, and we did differ on this one. I like higher RPM's and he likes lower. But like I said my driveability is very nice (above 1500 rpm).. my power curve is similar to everyone elses, it's just a little higher in the rpm's, but it also lasts longer, most will start dropping right around 5k - 5500, and tq will be around 4k 4500. My hp starts to drop right around 6k, and my tq about 5300 Give or take a couple. I need to have another dyno sheet printed so I can post it, I would like to hear some thought's on where my power is comming on. Grady asked me for that a loooonnnngggg time ago.... (sorry Grady) so i'll make the effort to get it.

Sorry juiced we didnt mean to hijack your thread... Our whole point is we all think your numbers are low, but I believe they will come up quite a bit with break in...

Ok, but that's the kind of driveability I am talking about so I am sticking with Grady's defention. I am guessing your power curve is not as good as Gradys for example too... but I dunno. Maybe post your dyno. From everything I have learned, you will have less low end at lower rpms that he will have which is where we street drivers like it. maybe post and we'll see. Thanks.

 

[gcomfx.com]

Juiced: I want to see where your A/F ratio is at.

 

[juiced_94gt]

Juiced: I want to see where your A/F ratio is at.

I will post up the A/F latter today or tomorrow.

 

[juiced_94gt]

And untill i het the video uploaded and posted...here is the dyno sheet.

 

[final5-0]

I'd love to discuss this more with you two fine fellers

Don't wanna derail this thread
so
If either of you wanna start a new thread

1rwhp per 1c.i. is expected. Anything OVER that is going to be driveability not so goodie...IMHO I mean, sure you can put down 375-400rwhp with that car with the right mods but for me that car would suck to drive on street, but thats just me...

Mostly True ... but ... Not Totally True

See now this is a bad little piece of info... I'm not picking on ya poka, remember I like ya However my little 306 was tuned by Steve, i'm getting 330hp and 357 tq, on a nice tune. My driveability is almost stock, it will buck under 1500 rpm, but seriously when do we drive under that anyway. I currently run on the smog tune since I can run 87 octane, but even then my numbers are over the 300hp - tq. Even my girlfriends can drive my car without issue's. Steve is a fantastic tuner, and some of the engines he has built are rediculous, just look at his shop car, it's a 95 Gt with a 427, he finally put it back together but is having an issue with tranny, blew it on the first dyno run. That thing is sickkkkkk..... Juiced as soon as that motor loosens up you'll feel the full potential, make sure to get different tunes next time you go to Steve, tell him you want a really aggressive tune and a smog tune, Your running higher compression than I am, so I would still use 91, but the smog tune will ensure you pass smog without a problem. Also his aggressive tune is still very safe, he always leaves little room for error.

You have your perspective based upon Steve's ability
but
I have one as well based upon my findings with my tuning efforts

Ok, but that's the kind of driveability I am talking about so I am sticking with Grady's defention. I am guessing your power curve is not as good as Gradys for example too... but I dunno. Maybe post your dyno. From everything I have learned, you will have less low end at lower rpms that he will have which is where we street drivers like it. maybe post and we'll see. Thanks.

The differences might could be explained
if
A really close look was taken with each combo

Grady and I both like Tq, he prefers his to be in the 1500 - 4k range, I like mine in the 2500 - 5k range. We had this debate a while ago, and we did differ on this one. I like higher RPM's and he likes lower. But like I said my driveability is very nice (above 1500 rpm).. my power curve is similar to everyone elses, it's just a little higher in the rpm's, but it also lasts longer, most will start dropping right around 5k - 5500, and tq will be around 4k 4500. My hp starts to drop right around 6k, and my tq about 5300 Give or take a couple. I need to have another dyno sheet printed so I can post it, I would like to hear some thought's on where my power is comming on. Grady asked me for that a loooonnnngggg time ago.... (sorry Grady) so i'll make the effort to get it.

I bet we are not as far apart in thinking as it might at first seem

Now Then ...
lets all get back to talking about Juiced's new 331 stroker combo

Grady

 

[juiced_94gt]

so what do you guys see on the dyno sheet??

 

[gcomfx.com]

so what do you guys see on the dyno sheet??

A lack of Air/Fuel ratio to see if the combo has more in it.

 

[WHITE94COBRA]

Actually your graph looks damn good your Tq is nice and flat, and your Hp climbs very nicely, your seeing at least 300Tq from 2800 all the way to 5500. I would like to see your hp intersect a little sooner in the rpm's and peak a little higher. But IMHO it looks pretty nice, just a bit low. And I assume your air fuel is right around 12- 13 through the entire run.

 

[SQUEEZE&STROKE]

For Comparison-

My combo


TFS Stage 3 cam
Victor jr heads (untouched)
331
flat top pistons (9.5-10 ish comp)
Victor Jr manifold (untouched)
Holley 750 HP
BBK shorty headers and off road H
Mac catback
Alternator and vacuum pump only accessories
t-5 trans
Spool


Made 407HP and 375ish TQ to rear wheels corrected.

I see two major differences, accessories and induction.
I think that with a cam change and some injector/airflow improvments you should be close.

 

[gcomfx.com]

That cam should pull higher than that.... especially with the Track Heat intake. Mine feels like it pulls a good bit past that. I was getting my best times shifting around 6,200.

Dang it... must get to dyno soon. I'm for a comparison.

 

[blkcobra50]

I like how your torque moves quickly to 300 rwtq below 3000 RPMs and is nice and flat. Though your final numbers may not be what others would expect, my opinion is you have yourself a nice motor there. Good luck with it!

Do I see either your ignition breaking up or a bit of valve float at 5800 up? I had the same thing over 6000 RPMs and my tuner said it was ignition breaking up. Ignition Box would fix that if you don't have that already.

I'd like to see your A/F ratio also. When I had my car tuned the tuner kept the A/F a bit on the richer side and less total timing for a safer tune. The guy who did your motor may have done the same. All Dyno's are different also. Rip it at the track and see what it does.

I've been watching the progress of your build and how it runs. I am anxious for the dyno vid.

John

 

[juiced_94gt]

i would have expected bigger hp #'s also, way bigger. now, im not trying to be a dick here but i cant see spending over $8000 on a motor that makes 12hp more than my 302 vert w/ trickflow h/c/i. unported heads at that. i just don't understand the numbers you guys get. makes me thankfull that i have one of, if not the best, tuners in the country tuning my cars. i understand tuning the car safe, but damn. maybe it's just me.

I understand what you mean...If my car would have had 60-140K i would have just done a H/C/I on it, BUT it had 255k and it was on it's last rod so i just decided either a brand new car or ressurect the mustang with a new heart which is what i did...the numbers look a little low but at over 100 RWHP than before it justifies my 8-10k spent

 

[final5-0]

As said above ... tq looks really nice

Power is done by 5400 ... seems like a bit more should be there

As for the hp intersecting sooner ................

I thought if the hp & tq were on the same calibration ...............

They MUST intersect at ... IIRC ... 5252 rpm

I've never stated I was a cam guru
so
I gotta ask if that cam is matched well with the rest of the combo

Is it possible that intake is a bit small

Also ... the wavy lines at 5800 ... like was said above
Maybe ... ignition, valves not being contained, even a bit of wheel slip

Grady

 

[juiced_94gt]

Steve told me yesterday that i would have benefietd from a Performer RPM II intake, minimal but he said i would have benefited, as for the wavy lines i would suspect the ignition...it is stock except for a MSD blaster coil, FRPP wires, and a MSD dizzy, as for valve float, i hope it isn't so since i invested in the full Ed curtia PS3 valve spring upgrade for a reason.

GCOMFX.COM:
He said my C&L inlet pipe is getting VERY hot and to invest in another cold air with at leats a shroud to keep the inlet temps down...just a tip since you are also running a C&L pipe.

 

[Grn92LX]

The numbers through out are way too low. BUT we don't know the total timing or a/f so its tough to say how low they really are.

For all the money invested in this thing you should have went with a custom cam since you already have ed's ps3 spring kit.

I don't agree at all with the anything over 1hp/cube rule being not too streetable. I'm probably in the 375-400rwhp range with my mild 347 and its perfectly streetable, unless you have a bleeding hole between your legs My sig describes it perfectly. I do think it would scare pokageek though

Its probably just too conservate of a tune being the culprit. I would however consider investing in a holley intake, custom cam and more gear down the road and really make this thing a 331

 

[juiced_94gt]

The numbers through out are way too low. BUT we don't know the total timing or a/f so its tough to say how low they really are.

For all the money invested in this thing you should have went with a custom cam since you already have ed's ps3 spring kit.

I don't agree at all with the anything over 1hp/cube rule being not too streetable. I'm probably in the 375-400rwhp range with my mild 347 and its perfectly streetable, unless you have a bleeding hole between your legs My sig describes it perfectly. I do think it would scare pokageek though

Its probably just too conservate of a tune being the culprit. I would however consider investing in a holley intake, custom cam and more gear down the road and really make this thing a 331

A Edcurtis custom cam and a new intake will be the project for 08'

 

[WHITE94COBRA]

I agree on the systemax intake (or RPMII), that is what I got...... now I need to get it put on..... Why am I so damn lazy lately??? lol. I dont see you getting any float, your not revving high enough, and you dont have a huge cam. The ignition system on our cars really arent that bad, so I dont think thats much of a problem either.

 

[gcomfx.com]

Yeah, I mentioned the C&L in my thread. It read hotter than the black intake did.

I wouldn't look at more gear if you ever want to spray the car. I ran across the traps well over 6,000 on the 75 shot. I don't know if I have the tire for the 125 shot. Good thing my slicks are taller than my drag radials.

BTW - when are you going to a 1/4 track?

 

[final5-0]

It would seem to me

Steve would not leave much on the table with fuel and spark

Again ... just pure speculation ... but ... why do that

The OEM ignition ... if in good shape ...
would be more than adequate for that NA combo IMHO

Grady

 

[Grn92LX]

A Edcurtis custom cam and a new intake will be the project for 08'

Heres some customer feedback cut and pasted from FTI's site to give you an idea what you can pick up with good parts..

"Jarett here,

You may remember I'm running a CHP-347, Twisted Wedge heads, Edelbrock RPM EFI, and the Stage One TFS cam. I dynoed (after tuning) at 312 rwhp and 348 rwtq. Then I changed to your cam and went to a bigger exhaust as per your instruction (from 1 5/8 shorty to a 1 3/4 LT). With no other changes, I just dynoed today at 373 rwhp 383 rwtq. A gain of 61 rwhp and 35 rwtq.

Thanks a million - It was well worth every penny."

This is similar to my combo except im running a better manifold, probably more compression and a more aggressive camshaft from Ed.