The "CAI" is NOT a "performance" modification.

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by DMAN302, May 4, 2005.


  1. Project89

    Project89 New Member

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    CAI's add lots of power, what you need to do is install the "Turbonator" inside the tube! :rlaugh: Just kidding, I got suckered into buying one (CAI), no gains but I can hear it suck air when I blip the throttle. Either that or I have a leak somewhere. Only good thing is it looks a heck of a lot better than the stock set-up.
     
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  2. GroverDill

    GroverDill GoldMember

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    [​IMG]
    made good power.
    333/342 @ JBA
    315/327@ dynoshop
     
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  3. 04sleeper

    04sleeper Founding Member

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    Email sent.

    PS. Clean out your PM Box......Lol
     
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  4. dvs bullet

    dvs bullet New Member

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    I went back to a stock air box with the K&N filter with a 75mm maf, I didn't notice a difference changing back. I think that it's mostly the filter that does the gain.
     
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  5. Jekyl

    Jekyl New Member

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    Mine came with my car :p I dont know what brand it is but it has a wide cone filter and it goes into the fender well.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Philstang

    Philstang New Member

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    What about the accordian style ripples in the stock rubber intake tube...
    could a smooth ntake tract be an improvement.?
     
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  7. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all" Founding Member

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    Here are my thoughts...I happen to have a "cai" in my sig. and it isn't there for performance reasons...it just blinged up the underhood a bit. (That is my only "bling") and the only reason it is on there is because the previous owner had it on there.

    Signatures don't neccesarily have to have "performance" mods either...I have never looked at it like that...

    The powerpipes do help out...

    A cai will not gain you any significant power if at all. Especially the "metal" ones like I have which hold heat pretty well. But in all reality I think how quick the air is "vaccumed" into the engine the surrounding heat doesn't change the temp that quickly enough to warrant it being called "cold air intake" on both ends...

    I have ARP bolts in my sig. but that isn't a performance mod... :D

    Edit: I have the fenderwell model (which is of similar style to a powerpipe) and that would be the only one I would run is a fenderwell style. Sucking in hot engine air would not be so good...fenderwell would be the only way I would go...if any.
     
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  8. seijirou

    seijirou Founding Member

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    Yours is Mac.

    The AFM one might make power over stock, but I'm still doubting it, it looks metal to me. When making a cold air intake, you shouldn't make it out of a high heat-conducting material such as metal. Look at where our intakes sit, not 12 inches above a header. Go run your car around for 10 minutes, pull over, pop the hood and grab that metal "cold" air intake, and feel how cold it really is.

    The stock airbox pulls air from the fender, so sticking the filter in the fender well is actually the same difference. The reason many of the CAI's screw the MAF readings is actually turbulent airflow. They may look sleek and smooth but don't let it fool you.
    If you look at Jekyl's intake, you'll see that the inlet leads to a bend, before reaching the MAF sensor. At this bend, some of the air is going to want to spin horizontally, like a top, and leads to turbulent airflow to the MAF meter. The airflow to the meter needs to be straight and even (this is why the stock MAF meter has a screen in it). Because it's only measuring a small portion of the air coming in, and then from that calculating the real incoming air mass. If the air is rocky and turbulent, you could be getting more airflow through the bottom half of the meter, than the top half (where the sampling tube is) which means the calculation is going to come up short, and you'll be lean. Or you'll get more through the top half than the bottom, and now you're rich. Typically you get both back and forth, and your readings are all over the place. Very not happy.

    If you look at the stock box, the box is simply a reservoir of air, it isn't channeled yet so it doesn't really have any direction, when it enters the tube, that tube is a straight shot to the MAF meter.

    Personally testing filters and whatnot on a Dyno. I saw 1hp with a drop in panel filter over a panel paper filter, 1 more hp with the bottom half of the box removed, no filter, just the tube up to the throttle body (total of 2 hp, the box lid remained on to shield from fan wash) And a loss of 4hp with an open throttle body, no intake tubing. (no, bigger, wider, opener, is not always better, air velocity has it's place!)
    What do these changes mean? Absolutly nothing, you can get these same variances in back to back dyno pulls without changing anything.
     
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  9. GroverDill

    GroverDill GoldMember

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    you are missing the point.

    The AFM is a much larger and smother path for the air. not to mention the relocated MAS.
     
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  10. cjman15

    cjman15 Banned

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    Hmm, good commentary. I guess my K&N drop-in will suffice. haha
     
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  11. 302GT

    302GT New Member

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    Mine came with just half of the intake tube,no filter or anything.It ends where the maf would be.I may buy a fender mount kit for it as I don't want to buy one from a junk yard and a new one would probably cost more than a cai.
     
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  12. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all" Founding Member

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    seijorou - Air travels very quickly thru the tube with the vaccum insued by the throttle body opening. It gets sucked up rather quickly and the "metal" isn't going to heat the air much if at all in that short time. Not enough for it to matter...IMO.
     
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  13. MarSaleenMustan

    MarSaleenMustan Founding Member

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    ding ding ding.... we have a winner.

    a smoother cai "MAY" add A horsepower, maybe two on a good cool day, but i defenetly dont see it adding any more than 5 on a naturally aspirated otherwise stock engine. now if you're talking about the '03-'04 cobras yes, they are documented to gain 20rwhp or so, but defenetly not on a n/a 5.0.
     
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  14. seijirou

    seijirou Founding Member

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    I see 3 bends in that power pipe, stock has 1 bend, even the mac only has 2. and I'm not so sure you can fit a MAF meter and filter without another bend in the fender well, so you'll have to tell me if there's yet another bend in there. So what is it that makes the air smoother and more direct than a stock straight shot to the MAF meter and a single bend afterwords? I'm not trying to argue, I'm not trying to say no you're wrong. I'm just saying based on what I see, that's how it seems to me. And based on my dyno experience (open throttlebody) simply going bigger on intake tubing isn't going to do anything. But I'll allow that there might be something I don't know about (there's plenty I don't know about) so I'm just asking what it is that I'm missing.

    5spd I agree that the air probably doesn't sit in the intake tubing tract long enough to be heated much.
    I'd also look at the size of air to air intercoolers. Granted they use heatsinks, but they're not partcularly large, and air does move through them quickly, yet they drop temps drastically nonetheless. Also Icing the intake seems to work decently, and the air isn't going to be in there very long either.
    Bottom line, I havn't done any testing, so I can't honestly say that I know one way or the other. I will say you can remove all doubt by simply not using such a heat-conducting intake tube however!
     
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  15. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all" Founding Member

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    Not to bad of assumptions...:nice: I agree with some of your questions...(if that makes sense)...I still don't see thru a cai how the air is heated with the density of air that runs thru it...

    Now...does anybody know (I can't remember) if the stock air box rubber tubing has "ribs" on the inside. I'm guessing it does with the molds they were made in. This would be the advantage of the powerpipe with the single molding it would provide...
     
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  16. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    Since heat soak through the intake pipe seems to be a concern, has anyone insulated the intake pipes? Some header wrap with reflective outer layer similar to starter blankets might work fairly well.
    I would say that if the CAI is messing with the MAF readings, that this is a bad design not, a bad principal. What brands were seen to mess with the MAF? I am looking to get one in the future just for appearance reasons. I would be interested in seeing the design differences between the CAI that mess with the MAF and those that do not.
     
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  17. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    My tube at the throttle body has 3? ribs running perpendicular to air flow. Other than that the insides of the stock tubes are smooth.

    Not sure why those were designed in. Anyone? Maybe just flexibility for installation.
     
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  18. seijirou

    seijirou Founding Member

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    I've seen the MAC one give problems, but only sometimes. It's odd because it's not really consistant. But then again I didn't pay attention to which ones used stock MAF meters and which ones didn't. The screen in the stock MAF meter would help to straighten the air up, whereas I don't think I've seen an aftermarket one yet that has it.
    I added a screen to mine.
    But I run the stock airbox too...
     
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  19. criticman

    criticman Member

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    This has been beaten to death. There are dyno sheets elsewhere...USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION (to those of you who like to say that).

    I believe someone even did temperature tests of the CAIs, stock without silencer, etc.

    Basically, as it has been stated in bits and pieces...
    1) Stock setup, without silencer, is CAI - it pulls cold air from the fenderwell.
    2) Unless you are pulling from the fenderwell (stock or "CAI"), you are killing your power (heat, air surges from cooling fan).
    3) Power "gains" are minimal, if any on a stock/mild engine. You MAY see some noticable gain on a huge stroker that is craving lots of air. Odds are you won't see a power jump at the wheels, maybe on an engine dyno.

    So yeah, put whatever the hell you want in your sig. Unless they are making claims that it is upping their HP 20+ at the wheels, leave them alone (and yes, look at my sig...I am included in "them").
     
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  20. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all" Founding Member

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    The ribs in there are just from the molding like many mass produced products made of rubber. It is just part of it..."it comes with the territory"...

    Oh and I have a Mac Cai fenderwell style and a 75mm Pro-M MAF and NO problems with them whatsoever... :shrug:
     
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