Think This Could Cause A Hard Start?

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by foxbodymike87, Oct 23, 2013.


  1. foxbodymike87

    foxbodymike87 Active Member

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    So the previous did a battery relocation to the trunk and it looks like a crappy job. I have been having hard starts since I got it and have been wondering if this could cause it. Hopefully pics show up
     

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  2. foxbodymike87

    foxbodymike87 Active Member

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    What I'm wondering is if the clamps are getting a good connection
     
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  3. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
    SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

    Revised 24-Oct-2013to update voltage drop figures.

    No crank, slow crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
    Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of both no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

    Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…


    1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
    A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

    Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

    The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

    The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a known problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

    If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstick and work normally for a while.

    A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .25 volts across a connection indicates a problem. The voltage drop tests need to be done while cranking the engine. It's the current flowing through a connection or wire that causes the voltage drop.

    See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .

    [​IMG]

    Voltage drops should not exceed the following:
    200 mV Wire or cable
    300 mV Switch or solenoid
    100 mV Ground
    0.0V Connections
    A voltage drop lower that spec is always acceptable.

    2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

    3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

    The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

    4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

    5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

    Typical start circuit...
    Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
    [​IMG]


    6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.


    Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang
    [​IMG]


    Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.
    [​IMG]

    Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid

    Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective or the battery lacks sufficient charge to crank the engine.

    If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.


    See the Typical start circuit diagram above for wiring information for troubleshooting.

    You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
    Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
    No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

    The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
    Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.




    Rear mounted battery ground wiring. Follow this plan and you will have zero
    ground problems.


    One 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge wire from battery negative post to a clean shiny spot
    on the chassis near the battery. Use a 5/16” bolt and bolt it down to make the
    rear ground. Use a 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge wire from the rear ground bolt to a clean
    shiny spot on the block.

    One 4 gauge wire from the block where you connected the battery ground wire to
    the chassis ground where the battery was mounted up front. Use a 5/16” bolt
    and bolt down the 4 gauge engine to chassis ground, make sure that it the metal
    around the bolt is clean & shiny. This is the alternator power ground.

    [​IMG]


    The computer has a dedicated power ground wire with a cylindrical quick connect
    (about 2 ½”long by 1” diameter. It comes out of the wiring harness near the
    ignition coil & starter solenoid (or relay). Be sure to bolt it to the chassis ground
    in the same place as you bolted the alternator power ground. This is an
    absolute don’t overlook it item for EFI cars

    Note: The quick disconnect may have fallen victim to damage or removal by
    a previous owner. However, it is still of utmost importance that the black/green
    wires have a high quality ground..

    Picture courtesy timewarped1972 [​IMG]

    Crimp or even better, solder the lugs on the all the wire. The local auto stereo
    shop will have them if the auto parts store doesn't. Use some heat shrink tubing
    to cover the lugs and make things look nice.

    For a battery cut off switch, see http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=42225
    is the switch http://www.moroso.com/catalog/images/74102_inst.pdf is the installation instructions.
    Use the super duty switch and the following tech note to wire it and you will
    be good to go.

    Use the Moroso plan for the alternator wiring and you risk a fire. The 10 gauge wire they recommend is even less adequate that the stock Mustang wiring.

    There is a solution, but it will require about 40' of 18 gauge green wire.

    Wire the battery to the two 1/2" posts as shown in the diagram.

    The alternator requires a different approach. On the small alternator plug there is a green wire. It is the sense lead that turns the regulator on when the ignition switch is in the run position. Cut the green wire and solder the 40' of green wire between the two pieces. Use some heat shrink to cover the splices. See http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=7 for some excellent help on soldering & using heat shrink tubing.

    Run the green wire back to the Moroso switch and cut off the excess wire. Try to run the green wire inside the car and protect it from getting cut or chaffed. Crimp a 18 gauge ring terminal (red is 18 gauge color code for the crimp on terminals) on each wire. Bolt one ring terminal to each of the 3/16" studs. Do not add the jumper between the 1/2" stud and the 3/16" stud as shown it the
    Moroso diagram.

    How it works:
    The green wire is the ignition on sense feed to the regulator. It supplies a turn on signal to the regulator when the ignition switch is in the Run position. Turn the Moroso switch to off, and the sense voltage goes away, the voltage regulator shuts off and the alternator quits making power.

    The fuse & wiring in the following diagram are for a 3G alternator. The stock alternator uses a dark green fuse link wire that connects to 2 black/orange wires. Always leave them connected to the starter solenoid even if you have a 3G alternator.

    [​IMG]

    See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

    Ignition switch wiring
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

    Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

    Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

    Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg
     
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    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  4. RangerJoe

    RangerJoe Advanced Member

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    Regardless, I would clean that up. Strip the wires back to a clean part and get some quality cable ends. Whether it is the cause or not, it needs to be cleaned up.

    Joe
     
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  5. 90lxwhite

    90lxwhite I'm kind of a She-Man

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    Did the check list help?
     
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  6. Liebert91

    Liebert91 New Member

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    I wouldn't think it would unless the cable isn't big enough and it looks like it's the normal size.if it's not connected good it could.was it fine before the relocation?
     
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  7. 95Vert383AOD

    95Vert383AOD Active Member

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    I like holding the copper ring terminal with vise grips and heating it up with a blow torch while melting solder into it and then seating the wire into the fitting. It has worked extremely well for me.
     
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    jrichker likes this.
  8. flstang65

    flstang65 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever the problem is, that needs to be addressed as well.
     
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  9. 90lxwhite

    90lxwhite I'm kind of a She-Man

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    That's what she said
     
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