WhiteDevil
New Member
Carnut: My set up is pretty street only. Sound just like what your lookin at except for the heads. I daily drive my car and have for the past few months without issue.
note to self: ignore inflammatory commentsThats odd because according to uneducated internet racers, he shoulda lost a lot of low end
it seems pretty clear that that was a bona-fide restriction. even a high school drop out can see that. if you try to breathe through a straw, you will die.He GAINED low end, GAINED mid range and GAINED up top
Thats the only thing it shows is he needed a larger then stock TB, NOT that a 75mm gained his all the extra hp/tq. Who's to say a 65mm or 70mm couldn't have done the same.Car nut, you need a 75mm tb for your 347.
Black95GTS, you da man!!
Im too lazy to do it but someone should look up Ernie302's stock tb vs 75mm tb dyno results on his little 302. The results may suprise you, but im NOT at all suprised. He GAINED low end, GAINED mid range and GAINED up top Thats odd because according to uneducated internet racers, he shoulda lost a lot of low end
Accufab said:Here are some CFM ratings on "an engine", based on displacement and RPM's, but without any "CFM losses" due to heads, intakes, exhaust, etc.
Disp. (in cu. in.)..........CFM @ 6000 RPM.........6500 RPM............7000 RPM
280.....................................486....... ..........527....................567
290.....................................503....... ..........545....................587
300.....................................521....... ..........564....................608
310.....................................538....... ..........583....................628
320.....................................556....... ..........602....................648
330.....................................573....... ..........621....................668
340.....................................590....... ..........639....................689
350.....................................608....... ..........658....................709
360.....................................625....... ..........677....................729
370.....................................642....... ..........696....................749
380.....................................660....... ..........715....................770
390.....................................677....... ..........734....................790
400.....................................694....... ..........752....................810
410.....................................712....... ..........771....................830
420.....................................729....... ..........790....................851
430.....................................747....... ..........809....................871
These CFM ratings are all "naturally aspirated" of course. I'm not suggesting that you only use a TB or a carb that is equal to these ratings, but (a), it won't hurt if you do, and (b), it won't help if you use one much bigger than what the engine can use.
Thats the only thing it shows is he needed a larger then stock TB, NOT that a 75mm gained his all the extra hp/tq. Who's to say a 65mm or 70mm couldn't have done the same.
The smart way to chose a TB is based on CFM and how much CFM can the entire induction system handle. I have yet to see a 302-347 N/A needed/used 800+ CFM...
10-1 says he loses HP and TRQ with a 70mm unit.
I can definately your logic, but I'm gonna have to step in for the practical crowd. How does Joe street/strip builder test his entire induction system for CFM flow?
I could do it because I took fluid mechanics in college and can manipulate Bernoulli's equations. Then I would have to get coefficients of all the materials in the tract, sizes, rates of expansion/contraction for heat, etc etc etc.
Would I do it when selecting TB size for garage build up? Hell no! I'm not bringing that kind of crap into selecting a throttle body when I can do an internet search for 5 minutes and see that people here with "too big" TBs go faster and don't experience this loss of "low end grunt" that I keep hearing about.
You might ask why I'm so passionate about this... well look at my sig, I'm the dumbazz who bought a 65mm TB cause everyone said anything else was too big. It's a great unit and works awesome... but now I will have to buy the same part twice.
Adam
If want to find out how much minimum CFM is needed for X amount of bore/stroke/Cylinder/RPM here you go http://www.slowgt.com/Calc2.htm#Intake
Your right a 5 min search on the internet can get you the right answer
lol you won't be shutting up then, because it seems your only focus is on the WOT case (racing and making maximum dyno numbers) where a larger throttle body (and a larger carb for that matter) is more suitable.If someone shows me real proof that they actually got faster and made more power by switching to a smaller TB, then I'll shut up. Slips, dyno charts, etc.
i am more of grady's point of view. i rarely drive WOT and i never go to the track, so maximizing that case does not make sense for me. i will be extremely happy if my torque is 450 (or more!) from 3000-5000 rpm. max hp as 6000 rpm means nothing to me.final5-0 said:My view point of my current Street Car is ........
wot is NOT the only criteria I use to judge if my choices have been successful or not.
Cam specs are 555 lift intake 565 lift exhaust 114 lsa, with 1.6rr. I dont have the cam card in front of me but i'll find it if you would like the rest. I havnt tried a 75mm tb on this set up yet, But make no mistake I WILL.....Grady I didnt get it printed out, however when I get it redone I will get it printed. My a/f stayed right between 12 and 14 also, mostly right at 13. I have to get it retuned after the addition of the rpm2 and the introduction of nitros. i'm looking at 2 to 3 weeks before I do that stuff though The 98 cobra hasnt sold yet, so I dont have overflowing pockets right now.
all i can say is, wow that is one well matched setup you have there. some people with 331s would be happy with that kind of power.
how is the driveability?
is the inlet on the rpm ii 70mm or 75mm?
and how about your elbow? 70mm or 75mm?
Smart choice, you'll make more power with the 75. Just make sure the elbow and inlet match 75mm but you already know this
What is the rpm powerband on the cam card? Duration?
Driveability is pretty good, it bucks below 1200 rpm, but other than a pretty stiff clutch it's not too bad.
I'm not sure on the rpm2 opening, but it will be 75mm since my elbow is already a 75mm, I'm using the 70mm because of my old setup it ran better with the 70mm, And when I say better I dont mean faster, I mean better driveability. To be honest I dont know why it ran better with the 70mm, but with the 75mm it would buck like hell anything under 2k rpm's, with the 70mm it wouldnt do that.
I should have taken pics of my heads after Sid ported them. Sid is my fathers old buddy who in his hayday worked heads over for numerous manufacturers, I cannot explain what he did to them accept he said the intake ports didnt match up very well, and he would be making them line up to the intake, as well as some minor bowl and other port work. They looked the same to me accept they were soooo clean, and the ports were gleaming. I think most of my success with this combo is because of this. Nothing else on my setup is much different from others combo's but i'm putting up great numbers, with good driveability, so we'll see what it puts down after the intake and tb, i'll post results and dyno sheet after.
power band on the cam card is 1500 - 6500 rpm, And i'm having a hell of a time finding the cam card; Can I call Ed for a new cam card??? Cause i'm going crazy trying to locate it.
I'm also upping to the #30 injectors, with nitros the #24's will be a little thin.
in one word - velocity
the air charge moves faster (for each degree of TB blade movement) when using a smaller TB and that fills the cylinder better at lower rpms.
are you saying that there is no case where a smaller throttle body might be more appropriate?
Well, on my girlfriend's pontiac sunfire, I would agree that a smaller throttle body may be appropriate. Same as on my old man's Buick LeSabre. Not on a mustang modified for performance.
I doubt someone with a carb just sizes it for flow and throws it on there expecting it to be optimal. I'm pretty sure that lots of screw twisting and jet sizing occurs before it runs at peak. Now, I've only done points once but one of you old timers can chime in on that.
I think the age of "bolt ons" have in a certain sense softened the hardcore mechanic. Just like Grady used to do his tweaking with a flathead, he now does it with a laptop. More headaches, less elbow grease. It requires more time, but hey it starts up when the car is cold out!
IMO, if a combo is mechanically sound, there is no such thing as an uncureable driveability issue in a FI car.
Adam