toploader
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6 cylinder transmissions are good for 6 cylinders. i think toploaders are 4 speeds. there is no way your stock I6 transmission will hold up to a v8 but if you are keeping it for a straight 6 than i think there pretty good. Ive have also heard toploaders are bullet proof.
dennis112
15 Year Member
That 3 speed is technically a toploader since its gears go in through the top of the case. Unfortunately it is also a 100% totally different design that is not even close to the one found in a V8. The 65 200 3 speeds are very puny and weak in comparison. Not even worth the consideration.
Maybe "tough as a pinkie nail on a valley girl". The 170/200 in those years used the "2.77" 3-speed transmission, a lightweight, low-cost manual with non-synchronized first gear. It does load from the top, but with its tiny case, a 10-year-old girl could carry it easily.
The V8 cars used the "3.03" 3-speed manual transmission, and this one was tough, even sharing some internal parts with the "toploader" 4-speed.
I guess Ford got tired of warranty claims, since even the 6 cylinder engine could trash this transmission. Starting in 1967 even the 6 cylinder cars got the 3.03.
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
Just to clarify further, the Toploader 4-speed transmissions got either a 2.78 first gear(wide ratio gearset) or 2.32 (close ratio).
I much prefer the 4-speed version.
I much prefer the 4-speed version.
if it is the four bolt top loader, then not much. if you want a three speed trans, the nine bolt top loader is the one you want as it is just as tough as the top loader four speeds.
The small block Toploaders were rated for about that figure. The bigblock Toploader? Who knows...................I ran the small block Toploaders behind a 390 and later a 427. Good stuff. The one in my 89 Ranger is 41 years old, rebuilt once (maybe) and only recently lost the 3rd and 4th gear syncros. It still shifts, only you have to wait between gears for them to mesh. When cooler weather sets in, it's going to be replaced with another.
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
Yeah, and the blocker rings aren't really a power-related failure. The small shaft Toploaders are tough, but I have a hard time imagining what it would take to break a big shaft transmission. I managed to break a case once in a '65 coupe, but that was from a u-joint failure and not overpowering the parts.
dennis112
15 Year Member
I drag race my toploader every week using drag slicks and holding the go pedal to the medal. The only issues I had with the small block toploader is that the input shafts will twist and cause the clutch to not engage properly. At first I thought this was a fluke, until I replace it and twisted the replacement the very next week!
Note that the bottom one is the only one that is straight. I was putting about 450hp to it at the time and was launching around 3K.
I then upgraded the input shaft to the 1 3/8" big block style replacement and have had no issues with it with 5K launches and even more HP.
You can see the difference of the SB and the BB input shafts.
Other than occasional gear replacement due to worn engagement teeth, the toploader has been reasonably bullet proof since. I did save up enough $$ and later went back in to upgrade the output shaft to 31 splines, although the old 28 spline stuff held up just find.
The brass blocker rings wear on the inside where they meet the gear more than they wear on their engagement points.
A fully adjustable race clutch also helps to save parts at the track. On the street, I doubt that you will ever twist a SB input shaft. Even the SB ones are quite tough on the street.
If you are interested in the BB input shaft/output shaft conversions, I did some writeups on them:
Toploader Input Shaft Replacement - FordMuscle.com Forums
31 Spline Toploader Output Shaft Conversion - FordMuscle.com Forums
Modifying A Clutch Fork - FordMuscle.com Forums
Note that the bottom one is the only one that is straight. I was putting about 450hp to it at the time and was launching around 3K.
I then upgraded the input shaft to the 1 3/8" big block style replacement and have had no issues with it with 5K launches and even more HP.
You can see the difference of the SB and the BB input shafts.
Other than occasional gear replacement due to worn engagement teeth, the toploader has been reasonably bullet proof since. I did save up enough $$ and later went back in to upgrade the output shaft to 31 splines, although the old 28 spline stuff held up just find.
The brass blocker rings wear on the inside where they meet the gear more than they wear on their engagement points.
A fully adjustable race clutch also helps to save parts at the track. On the street, I doubt that you will ever twist a SB input shaft. Even the SB ones are quite tough on the street.
If you are interested in the BB input shaft/output shaft conversions, I did some writeups on them:
Toploader Input Shaft Replacement - FordMuscle.com Forums
31 Spline Toploader Output Shaft Conversion - FordMuscle.com Forums
Modifying A Clutch Fork - FordMuscle.com Forums
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
In the back of my head I was saying to myself "I didn't know there were any big input shafts for smallblocks."
Didn't the Boss 302s have an extended pilot bushing so they could use BB transmissions with the shorter snout?
Didn't the Boss 302s have an extended pilot bushing so they could use BB transmissions with the shorter snout?
In the back of my head I was saying to myself "I didn't know there were any big input shafts for smallblocks."
Didn't the Boss 302s have an extended pilot bushing so they could use BB transmissions with the shorter snout?
Yes, they did. The same bushing was also used in the early Broncos.
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