Trying to set my timing

[65fastbackresto]

I`ve got the motor running but it aint right, it starts missing about 2000 rpms and gets worse the higher you go. All parts on motor are new and I`m pretty sure I goofed up the dist when I set it in anyway. Anyway here we go.

MSD dist with mechanical advance
MSD 6AL Ign box

When I dropped the dist in the first time due to some apparantly bad info, I set the dist to fire plug number one at 10 degrees on the crank (harmonic balancer showed 10 degrees when I dropped dist into the hole) I`m pretty sure this is wrong, but need wome backup.

The magnetic trigger on this dist, is it supposed to be in any certian position when the dist is dropped in the hole (such as lined up to the number one plug maybe?)

As yall can tell I`m no mechanic, and if it were not for this website I doubt I`d even have this car running, but its up and alive again and EVERYTHING is new mechanically under this car, and if it werent for yalls help, I wouldn`t be where I`m at now. Thanks alot.

 

[D.Hearne]

Did you set it at 10*BTDC or 10*ATDC ? Rotor should be pointing at #1 when dropping it in. Also sounds like the advance isn't working.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Danny

I dont know what that means. It was at 10 degree mark on crank with rotor on plug number one on the compresion stroke. Piston was at the top of the cylinder starting down if that helps.

 

[D.Hearne]

There are two TDC's with each firing cycle. You need to be at TDC on the compresion stroke (both valves closed) The crank rotates twice for each rotation of the cam. The balancer has the following markings: ATC 10 I I I I 0 I I I I 10 I I I I 20 I I I I 30 BTC You want the pointer at the 10 degree mark on the BTC side.

 

[65fastbackresto]

It is at 10 on the BTC side then.

But my balancer dont have any marks on the ATC side, it just starts at 0 and the marks are to the right of the 0 as your looking down on it.

So it sounds like thats right? If so, you mentioned the advance might not be working, being as this is mechanical should I be able to just spread the weights out on the dist with my hands to see if they are working right? It has the factory weights and springs on it, the stop is at 20 degrees, total advance in at 2000 rpm with the current spring configuration.

 

[geostang351]

I dont know what that means. It was at 10 degree mark on crank with rotor on plug number one on the compresion stroke. Piston was at the top of the cylinder starting down if that helps.

From this quote, sounds like you are at 10* After Top Dead Center if the piston is going down. You want to be at 10* Before Top Dead Center (piston still going up). You'll need to rotate your distributor 20* to obtain this.

 

[brianj5600]

You won't get the timing right w/o a timing light. Eyeballing won't cut it. Beg, borrow or steal one, well maybe not steal. Otherwise it is a shot in the dark.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I think your right Brian

I took Geostangs advice and backed the dist up a couple teeth, dropped it back in, and most of the "missing" is gone, but it was pinging real bad so I brought it home without opening up the 4 barrel, so not sure yet if it worked. I need a light.

 

[SoCalCruising]

brianj5600 is correct. Setting the distributor by eye is tough. You will be surprised what the light tells you vs. what you thought was going on as a result of the method you used.

If the rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire when the #1 piston is at TDC, then you are either okay, or 180 degrees out. If you made CERTAIN that you were TDC on the compression stroke, then you are fine. Still, however, your timing is probably more retarded than you think and this is giving you your problems.

GET A TIMING LIGHT, MY SON.

 

[D.Hearne]

But my balancer dont have any marks on the ATC side, it just starts at 0 and the marks are to the right of the 0 as your looking down on it.

So it sounds like thats right? If so, you mentioned the advance might not be working, being as this is mechanical should I be able to just spread the weights out on the dist with my hands to see if they are working right? It has the factory weights and springs on it, the stop is at 20 degrees, total advance in at 2000 rpm with the current spring configuration.

If all you have is 20 degrees advance, you need more, about 6 degrees more. If it's still pinging with 36 total, you need more octane. Otherwise, you'll have to back off the timing some and suffer the missing power. Get a light and check to see if it's advancing, there's no other way to tell otherwise. You CAN however set the initial timing dead-on without a light, all you have to do is get the crank set where the timing pointer is at where you want it, remove the #1 plug, attach the plug wire, ground the plug, then with the ignition on (motor off) slowly rotate the distributor back and forth and watch for the spark. When it sparks, stop turning the distributor and lock it down. When you check it with a light, it will be dead-on target.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I put 91 octane in yesterday.

I think I`m gonna do what you said and start from scratch. I`m getting a little frustrated cause I have a limited understanding of the situation so far. I`m gonna put up some ideas I have and yall tell me if I`m nuts.

If I drop the dist in at 0, like Danny said, I can get my first 12 to 14 degrees of timing in by turning the dist, right?

Then I get 20 degrees more timing with the mechanical advance on the dist, which is currently set with factory springs and weights. Advance comes in at 1500 rpm (too high I think, should come in around 1000 rpm?) and is all in at 4000 rpm because of the 20 degree factory "stop" on the advance curve (its my understanding you want no more then 34 degrees total advance and all in by 3500 rpm, please correct me if I`m wrong.)

Heres where I`m at, I`m currently running the 2 heaviest springs that give the slowest advance, I may change one of the springs to the lightest spring, which will give me a mid range advance curve. This even sound like I have an idea whats going on here?

 

[D.Hearne]

You want it to advance as fast as possible with the octane you're using. 36* total is what I've always read is best. You've got it right on, you set the initial timing with the distributor, then you get the rest with the advance mechanism with the weights and springs inside. It should also start advance as soon as the rpms come up. Seems I read somewhere for it to be all in at 3000.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Thanks Danny

At least now I know I have the theory right, I can hope now at least LOL. I`ll get a timing light saturday at sears.

 

[SoCalCruising]

Modern Ford aftermarket heads will want 32-36 degrees, depending on the head. AFRs like a max of about 34 degrees, don't know what your Edelbrocks will like. Unless you do what D.Hearne suggested about setting the timing mechanically, you have to wait for the timing light before messing with it any further.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Yea I`m gonna wait till saturday

I never saw any specs on my heads that indicated what timing they would like. Are they heads part of the formula to figure out your best timing curve?

 

[JDS68Stang]

.............. You CAN however set the initial timing dead-on without a light, all you have to do is get the crank set where the timing pointer is at where you want it, remove the #1 plug, attach the plug wire, ground the plug, then with the ignition on (motor off) slowly rotate the distributor back and forth and watch for the spark. When it sparks, stop turning the distributor and lock it down. When you check it with a light, it will be dead-on target.

You give some good advice D.H. For now we have mine set by ear, gonna try your method soon till I can grab a light myself as I didn't know this.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Yea I`m gonna try his method in the morning

I just got permision from the wife to hit sears tonight.

 

[JDS68Stang]

I just got permision from the wife to hit sears tonight.

"Permission", man your gonna catch hell from the guys on that one

 

[65fastbackresto]

I`ll only catch it from

the ones without wives, the ones with wives will understand.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Hope I didnt mess something up just now

drove it for about 4 miles, it got up to 215 degrees and it sounded like the valves were clattering when the motor was under a load, the more load, the more clatter. It didnt start clattering like that until the motor got warm or I wouldn`t have done it. Anyone have any ideas?