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Discussion in '2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by feelthebreak, Nov 15, 2004.
If the GT isnt enough stock, just bolt on a belt-driven bugger and a chip.
some people are still compairing here...
Why do you think GM is offering incentives and lowering the price on the GTO? They couldn't sell enough of them fast enough at the original MSRP.
Has anyone here complained about paying the original, non-marked up MSRP on a '05 Mustang? If anything, there has only been complaints about dealers marking them UP! Like I said earlier, 25,000 '05 Mustangs pre-ordered.
If the GTO was such a hot item, GM dealers wouldn't be dropping the price. As for the '05 GTO, you expect that to cost less then $30k? I don't think so.
Before you even wrote this you shouldve asked yourself "if the mustang is Just as fast as the gto and 8 grand cheaper how much faster than the gto can I make my mustang by throwing that extra 8 grand into it?"
I guess it is just one of those situations where you just have to punch yourself in the eye for thinking a GTO is a better car.
It's already been addressed, but still worth pointing out, the '05 GTO isn't available yet. I've heard and read it will be in January, but that's over 1 month away and personally, I don't expect to see it for months after that... Like May.
By the time it's a solid street car(and they won't sell many), the '06 Cobra will likely be prowling the streets. Many reports indicate it will be built, and it's expected to have the 500hp version of the GT(40) engine. I doubt that, but I won't be shocked if it has the power... Not the same engine though.
The "apples to oranges" comments we've been reading are accurate. The GTO is coming down on price, but it's too little too late for the Ragazines! They already wrote their stories and sold the mags. Besides, the price would still be high if they sold really well. They're looking at several aspects, good and bad. Almost all I've read decidedly favor the MustangGT. They look at the higher hp of the GTO and note it's MSRP. They look at the exterior styling and almost all concur the Mustang looks better. They seem to like both interiors(although I find many things I prefer about the GTO), and while I've read conflicting info, all real test data I've come across tells me the Mustang reaches 60 as quickly and has a clear handling advantage. Here's a BIGGIE though. Pontiac DOES NOT advertize enough! They might have a real GT like car and we'd never know it by the way they run ads.
Regardless of ALL the reasons to like one over the other, their in two different categories and meant to appease two different segments.
who really cares as long as they both keep blowing doors off of imports im fine and who ever said an srt-4 is at the back bumper of either of these cars is full of it cause my 87 5.0 with complete exhaust will beat an srt-4 its been done a few times and ive been beat by a gto and an 05 gt so i dont see how this srt-4 will ever be on the back bumper on either car
I agree with that, why do they care which car is quicker. go out and blow the doors off the rice burners.
Pontiac is now releasing info on the 05 GTO.
Don't know if it's relevant or not, but those of us with '03/'04 Marauders saw about a half second improvement in 1/4 ETs after the engine had about 8 to 10k on the clock. Different heads on the aluminum 4.6 V8s, of course, and it has a helluva lot more dead weight to pull on the big car, but it'll be interesting to see if '05 GT crowd sees a similar improvement after they get some miles on the clock.
25000 units preordered huh? Hmmm were those V6's? And we cant forget about all the rental car companies buying them up....Mustangs will be a dime a dozen in a year. Whoopti doo
Not many people pre-order a V6 Mustang, and there's simply no question that not all were V6's. But no matter who buys them, nor the particular model, they're all Mustangs. It's a popular car today, as it has been since 1964.
Thats true they werent all V6's. However there were large numbers ordered by rental companies. Guessing those were V6s. Also, for every V8 I see on the road, I have seen 10 V6s... I am a mustang owner, and I love the styling, but the performance just isnt there. The fact that these cars are running neck and neck with the old LT1 Fbodys isnt impressive. You really cant compare them to the LS1's or LS2's.
I'm not trying to compare them and few here really are, as atested by the "apples to oranges" comments. Surely those ordered by Hertz, etc. are V6 models, but most "pre-orders" taken are likely V8's because the rental car companies run contract terms and get new cars each month, no matter the model, so those are existing orders being met as much as anything. Doesn't matter though, they're still selling like crazy. Probably quicker than any GM model, excluding pickups.
We'll surely see more V6's because they're cheaper, and have adequate power for most people. Plus, the V6 model was available in mass numbers before the GT's.
As for the LT1 numbers, that's nonsense. On even a moderate pass, the new MustangGT will run 14.0 completely stock and the LT1 F-body wasn't likely to see that kind of time even with a pro at the wheel when stock, save perhaps the SS in the final 2yrs. We've also seen 13.6's with stock '05's and that absolutely never happened for the LT1 F-body, no matter who was driving, or who says otherwise.
LT1's have consistently ran high 13's stock. WS6 and SS LT1's have reached 13.6's several times. You have your facts seriously mixed up. LT1's put down 255whp and near 300wtq. I believe those numbers are equal to and greater than the new Mustang numbers...
Oh, and your 13.6 came from a magazine test. Not eligible to quote. The 05's I have seen have all ran 14's. Even in the video on this post 14's. So, show me a video proving otherwise. My cobra can run hi 13's and I constantly get beaten by LT1s.
Believe what you want. I raced during all of the years they were produced, against likely more than 1,000 of them. I never saw a single non SS type even think about a 14.0, let alone a 13 anything.
Oh and the 13.6 I mentioned came from a member of this board. Last I heard, he doesn't work for any magazine and he owns his very own 2005 MustangGT. Further, I think his car is one of those in the video that began this thread(which you should read through). If you're running 13's and consistently losing to LT1 Camaro's, you either can't launch in a timely manner, or they aren't stock. How about asking one of the guys who beats you what's done to his car. I'd bet he points out no fewer than 3 modifications.
The LT1's consistent ran low 14's and everybody knows that. The fastest SS lt1 that I found in the mainstream rags ran 13.7.
The Gt 05 usually dyno 265-275rwhp not 255.
There several members who has reported 13.4, 13.6 and 13.7 on their 05 GT's stock. The guy in the video ran 13.6 a few weeks later after some more practice.
If you got owned by lt1 in your cobra . . most likely those lt1s were nonstock or you should practice your street launches some more.
Ahhhhhh . . . before I forget. This is for the GTO lovers.
400hp GTO not equal to 12's car. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Even with LS2/400hp, "nice interiors", and IRS lost to the cheaper and slower 05 mustang.
You obviously no nothing about FBODYS. The SS and WS6 were exact same performance as the non ram air versions. In fact, the fastest Fbodys were the Formulas and base z28 models because they were lighter. So the fact that a magazine ran an SS at 13.7 means there are faster Formulas out there...
Oh, and yes, the GTO 05 is a 12's car. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they are getting 13.3s out of the 04's. Magazines dont mean crap. And your buddy that ran the supposed 13.6? I saw him at the silver dollar track and never once saw it happen. I go there frequently. I saw the vid of the 14's and until I see otherwise, or get video otherwise, the GTO walked the GT...plain and simple
Yeah right. At least TRY to be rational, even if it's hard on your brain. Hollar loudly the FIRST time you see a stock LT1 Camaro run 13.7. I can't believe you'd even attempt such a stupid lie. Do you think you're dealing with yourself here?
Exactly ONE(1) 2004 GTO ran 13.30 or better when stock. ONLY one has been openly claimed. That hardly speaks for the other 10,000 or so that never ran better than 13.58 all stock. Where are the others?
So far, ZERO 2005 GTO's have run 12's that we know of, so save it. The average LS2 Corvette is running 12.60's. The GTO will not compete with that. GM isn't that stupid. Same engine, 500 plus pound heavier car... 12's? Good luck. Feel elated if you see one running 12.999 or quicker when stock. I won't be shocked by 13.1's really, but 12's isn't going to be common, bank on it. And by your reasoning, until we see it happen, it's just a 13.3 second car.
So the GTO beat him that night. Big deal. Evidently the GTO, and not the Mustang, was modified. The GTO came to being with more hp and more torque too, not to mention it's 65ci advantage. You may expect it to win. Did it run 13.5 when stock? No.
How about you go race that GT! Then you can look back and say... "DAMN! Now I got mass a$$ handed to me by a stock and less expensive GT!"
True, but neither does your guess work. Here you are, not only arguing with the results, but telling everyone what it will REALLY run and you've never laid eyes on a 2005 GTO at a race track. We expect them to be quicker, but to claim it's 1/2 second quicker is ridiculous without having seen a single one race. It's much like your claim that LT1 F-bodies commonly ran 13's when stock. It simply IS a lie!
An 05 GTO ran a 12.9.
Got it on video? I hope you see the point here.
I've read "estimates" already, btw. But nothing I've seen says it actually did run 12.9 thus far. Besides, we can't even buy one yet, or even go test drive one. We don't even have the actual MSRP yet.
Topping off the conversation, this thread isn't even about the '05GTO. We've simply had several GTO guys skip over the subject and "toss in" the '05 because they're convinced it's much better than '04's based on a bit of added hp and tq. Nothing else about the '05 is getting much positive attention. It's all about the speed, hp and torque. I've even read several opinions that the '05GTO handles better than the Mustang. It stops from 60 better(by 3 feet) and otherwise doesn't handle as well, yet it's 5-8K more expensive. It's a bigger car(not much but it is) and weighs hundreds of pounds more, but runs well. Are we to be shocked, or overly impressed with a 1.4L larger powerplant making a car quicker than another that's not even in it's class or price range? I think not. I like the GTO for '04 and '05, but we need to get over this stuff. Let's compare cars that are in the same group and price range.
Several GTO's have ran better than 13.5 stock and a few have ran better than 13.3. 13.1 actually is the best stock time on stock tires...
I will race him in his 05 GT. Bring it on. I personally saw him reeling in 14s. I saw a stock GTO beat a Stock 05. I saw Docs modded GTO wax the 05. I watched a 350Z that was stock beat the 05GT...so..... Even Nissans are outgunning them....So far, cause that is what is visible, real, and witnessed. Not hey I got a 13.6 with my 05 but no one saw it. Show me proof. They are 14 second cars til I see otherwise and I think a majority of the population believes that also. Look at the trap speeds? 100mph? LT1s were trapping that easily. LS1s were trapping 103-106. Where is your proof. So far I have the ball, the video is on here and I witnessed it too... End of story...put up or shut up