I would like to know this also
. My tuner told me to keep it under 3K rpms and absolutley no boost untill it's tuned on the dyno.VT Engine Break In
- Thread starter 04YELLOWGT
- Start date
I would like to know this also
. My tuner told me to keep it under 3K rpms and absolutley no boost untill it's tuned on the dyno.-
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Rickey_Bobby
New Member
Make sure your tune will NOT lean out at redline before running new motor. Reccomend doing initial break in on a dyno as you WILL need to boost the motor.
A.
0-250 miles
1. Do NOT allow engine to idle at constant RPM modulate RPM constantly!!!
2. Apply brief bursts of throttle in 3rd gear from 1k RPM to 4.5K RPM. (apply throttle gradually. at 4.5K RPM you should just be reaching about 80% throttle.)
3. Repeat this until engine reaches norm opp. temp.
4. Shut off engine and check for leaks. Let engine sit for min 3 hrs.
5. Repeat 1-3 but this time, reach WOT right as you make 4.5K RPM
6. Now you can drive your car around town. Stay under 4.5K. Modulate RPM constantly!!!!
B.
250-500 miles
Need to modulate engine RPM os no longer needed as long as RPM is below 3K. 70mph interstate driving is now ok.
1. Change oil. NO SYNTHETIC!
2. Take engine to 5K rpm using the method in section A, #5 above.
C.
500-1000 miles
CHANGE OIL AND FILTER! NO SYNTHETIC!!!
1. Flog engine with WOT bursts once a day or so not to exceed 5K RPM
2. No sustained high RPM cruising. (don't stay @ same RPM over 3K for more than 15 sec)
3. You want to put as much load on the motor as possible.
D.
1000 miles
1. Change oil. Synthetic OK.
2. Drive like it's your girls' ex boyfriends S7 hehe
A.
0-250 miles
1. Do NOT allow engine to idle at constant RPM modulate RPM constantly!!!
2. Apply brief bursts of throttle in 3rd gear from 1k RPM to 4.5K RPM. (apply throttle gradually. at 4.5K RPM you should just be reaching about 80% throttle.)
3. Repeat this until engine reaches norm opp. temp.
4. Shut off engine and check for leaks. Let engine sit for min 3 hrs.
5. Repeat 1-3 but this time, reach WOT right as you make 4.5K RPM
6. Now you can drive your car around town. Stay under 4.5K. Modulate RPM constantly!!!!
B.
250-500 miles
Need to modulate engine RPM os no longer needed as long as RPM is below 3K. 70mph interstate driving is now ok.
1. Change oil. NO SYNTHETIC!
2. Take engine to 5K rpm using the method in section A, #5 above.
C.
500-1000 miles
CHANGE OIL AND FILTER! NO SYNTHETIC!!!
1. Flog engine with WOT bursts once a day or so not to exceed 5K RPM
2. No sustained high RPM cruising. (don't stay @ same RPM over 3K for more than 15 sec)
3. You want to put as much load on the motor as possible.
D.
1000 miles
1. Change oil. Synthetic OK.
2. Drive like it's your girls' ex boyfriends S7 hehe
those are well written directions, but how can you be giving an untuned engine 4500rpm bursts when there is a blower on the car? detonation!!!!!!! its not tuned!
my tuner also told me to stay out of boost. i actually wouldnt mind getting on the new engine a little if this is what needs to be done, but you are not supposed to hit boost until you have the engine tuned...dont want to blow it up.
worst case sinario, just call vt and ask. that is what i gonna do. would like to know now though.
also, there are a ton of people who have their cars engines running na for a long time. they add the blower and their fine. actually i think that is the case with most people that add blowers. i understand that your saying that they just dont realize that there are any problems, but thats a lot of people.
my tuner also told me to stay out of boost. i actually wouldnt mind getting on the new engine a little if this is what needs to be done, but you are not supposed to hit boost until you have the engine tuned...dont want to blow it up.
worst case sinario, just call vt and ask. that is what i gonna do. would like to know now though.
also, there are a ton of people who have their cars engines running na for a long time. they add the blower and their fine. actually i think that is the case with most people that add blowers. i understand that your saying that they just dont realize that there are any problems, but thats a lot of people.
First how does this change if your an auto?
Also no one has yet told us how to do this with a blower with no tune. How the hell do you take it to 4.5-5K with no tune? I should be making around 17+ psi with a tune set up for 11, now I'm no genius but I think I'm gonna have some detination without a tune.
ADRENLN Beat me to it.
Also no one has yet told us how to do this with a blower with no tune. How the hell do you take it to 4.5-5K with no tune? I should be making around 17+ psi with a tune set up for 11, now I'm no genius but I think I'm gonna have some detination without a tune.
ADRENLN Beat me to it.
Im going to call VT come the first of the year and ask them. Alot of people have told me that after the first 20 miles the the rings have set like 80%-90% of the way. I know one guy that has built god knows how many engines and said that hed wait till like the first 100 miles at most before he would go WOT. I just want to make sure I do this right with the money thats going into this. I dont want to be driving it and a year or two down the line I start having problems or the motor takes a sh**.
Hell my tuner told me to wait anywhere from 1000-3000 miles before the dyno!
Hell my tuner told me to wait anywhere from 1000-3000 miles before the dyno!
well, thats just it. i would love to tune it right when i put it in and the blower on, but i cant put it on the dyno and blast the rpm up to 6000 rpm to get the proper tune.
im thinking....actually im really stumped, i dont know what to think. it seems like either way you do it, there is somthing bad happening to the engine.
if you dont tune it = have to break in the engine at different rpm and throtle and are supposed to hit boost to seat the seals or whatever. however, you cant hit boost because you didnt dyno tune and might get detination and blow the engine.
i also will be running about 15psi, i think......going to go with 3.0 pully. this could be fatal it i get on it untuned.
it you dont get on it = you guys say that things will not seal properly, and the engine wont be boost ready.
so there has to be a way to do this?
im thinking....actually im really stumped, i dont know what to think. it seems like either way you do it, there is somthing bad happening to the engine.
if you dont tune it = have to break in the engine at different rpm and throtle and are supposed to hit boost to seat the seals or whatever. however, you cant hit boost because you didnt dyno tune and might get detination and blow the engine.
i also will be running about 15psi, i think......going to go with 3.0 pully. this could be fatal it i get on it untuned.
it you dont get on it = you guys say that things will not seal properly, and the engine wont be boost ready.
so there has to be a way to do this?
Breaking in an engine for me has never consisted of more than bringing it up to optimal operating temperature before I leave the driveway and doing the initial oil change within the first 500km. Although I wouldn't be doing any sustained back to back top speed runs for the first 100km or so (until a little carbon has had a chance to make its way into the combustion chambers), a few WOT burst here and there is actually helpful during the initial break in. These things are meant to last and live a hard life! If you're popping an engine during break in with any driving style, it probably wasn't built properly to start with.
Absolutely....my post was merely a generalization as to the question of breaking in a new engine under the assumption that it's running properly. An untuned engine under boost is a completely different story. No engine no matter how well built, new or used should be run under boost at all without the tune being up to snuff. Forged components will allow you a little bit of leeway under minor pre-ignition conditions, but one good hard detonation will end a $3,500 short block as easily as a stock one.
In your case, I would have your tuner set you up with a good mail order tune with the appropriate fuel and timing curve modifications and wide band set up in order make sure the A/F ratio is where it's supposed to be.
If your tuner is unable to do this, I'd suggest you find one who can. You might want to contact Lonnie at Blue Oval Chips. He's doing mine and I'm in exactly the same situation you're in. He sold me the SCT XCal 2 and software, custom blower tune and LC-1 Wide band set up for a very reasonable $699.00. As far as tuners go, he's as highly regarded as any of the others recommended on Stangnet.
LaserRed01GT
Banned
Matt or I never said to slap on the blower and go do burnouts in front of the shop without being tuned or close to. When you have the dealer SCT software, Advantage 3.0, you have access to over something like 40,000 tune files. Based on my experience with blown cars and the huge database of tune files, you can immediately upload a tune based on the particular engine/blower combination before first firing the new motor. I can always get a "preset" tune so close to the final tune that it doesn't require much dialing in. So close that it is perfectly fine to go for a brief drive with no worry that there will be any spark knock or worse detonation induced pre-ignition. Take the car for a light test drive, make some light boost, datalog, for about 10 miles under light boost, come back to the shop make some fine tuning if neccesary based on the logged data, continue the break in as "suggested" by the place you got the motor as not to void any warranty they may have, then get it on the dyno and make the final fine tuning. Easy, but you MUST break the rings in under mild boost. The rings get seated during the first 50 miles of driving, so you only have a very brief window of time to get it right. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. The vast majority of tuning is done in the WOT parameters of the PCM anyway. When you are breaking in the motor (even under boost), you don't ever go WOT anyway.
As long it is a mild setup (under 550 RWHP) I will use the stock MAF transfer function. If it is going to be a more serious setup, obviously I will not use the stock MAF transfer function I will use MAFia. The MAF sensor outputs a signal total signal range of 0-12V+, but the PCM only reads 0-5V. It is then neccesary to use the MAFia to rescale the output. The MAFia rescales the output of the MAF down by preset factors of .76, .59, .47, or .38. Depending on the way you set it up the "rescaling", you can then make your final tuning and you will not have to worry about pegging the MAF due to the additional airflow.
As long it is a mild setup (under 550 RWHP) I will use the stock MAF transfer function. If it is going to be a more serious setup, obviously I will not use the stock MAF transfer function I will use MAFia. The MAF sensor outputs a signal total signal range of 0-12V+, but the PCM only reads 0-5V. It is then neccesary to use the MAFia to rescale the output. The MAFia rescales the output of the MAF down by preset factors of .76, .59, .47, or .38. Depending on the way you set it up the "rescaling", you can then make your final tuning and you will not have to worry about pegging the MAF due to the additional airflow.
Rickey_Bobby
New Member
those are well written directions, but how can you be giving an untuned engine 4500rpm bursts when there is a blower on the car? detonation!!!!!!! its not tuned!
my tuner also told me to stay out of boost. i actually wouldnt mind getting on the new engine a little if this is what needs to be done, but you are not supposed to hit boost until you have the engine tuned...dont want to blow it up.
worst case sinario, just call vt and ask. that is what i gonna do. would like to know now though.
also, there are a ton of people who have their cars engines running na for a long time. they add the blower and their fine. actually i think that is the case with most people that add blowers. i understand that your saying that they just dont realize that there are any problems, but thats a lot of people.
In referance to the tune... Please refer to the first line in my directions.
If you are building a blower motor, you boost it from day one. Sure you can add a blower later... but if you have the chance to do it right, do it!
The first start up and initial bursts should be done on the dyno so you can observe your tune. Pull timing, and run no more than 11:1 a/f.
Fast Eddie 41
New Member
- Dec 28, 2006
- 55
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And that's the ticket...
Just another thing to add to Kevin's post is that factory motors are built with much looser tolerances and bearing/oil clearances than a aftermarket built short-block....this is mainly due to stacked tolerances that are not typical with prioduction type motors. It is not uncommon for a factory built production short-block to have over 10% leakdown new with just a few 1000 miles on it. A quality shop that builds a performance shortblock will usually have between 2-4% leak down....meaning much tighter cylinder bore tolerances and ring setup. This makes it much more important to break in the new shortblock with boost.
Sure you can put a blower on a stock short-block with some mileage and it will work fine, but it will not be as efficient in developing a consistently obsereved BMEP (cylinder pressure) as a tighter performance built short-block would.... but if you have the chance to properly break-in a blown motor, you need to do it under boost as Kevin described.
Kev...I have been trying to get you on the Nextel...where are we meeting for the fight??
I am closing down the shop right now...if you see this holla at your boy dammit.BTW, one of those puppies got run over just a little while ago.
Why don't you install the blower before the new shortblock...this way you'll be tuned already. Then get the new shortblock installed and brake it in...then up the boost to 15psi and get retuned.
Actually, I've got to disagree with you with regards to that point. My Diamond pistons required much more clearance than the stock hypereutectic slugs did.....as do all forged pistons by comparison due to their increased expansion rate.
This is why forged engines often rattle during the first few seconds of cold start up. The nice thing about the Diamonds is that the wrist pin is offset, much like the factory piston to keep things quieter. But they do require more tolerance than the stock pistons just the same.
alright, so i break it in under some boost. so your saying to install everything, put it on the dyno, then what? get into the throttle a little bit, tune, and hit some boost, and tune? however, i dont want to go full throttle boost just yet, right?
somehow, just tune with partial throttle and some boost, right?
somehow, just tune with partial throttle and some boost, right?
My dyno is prolly 40-50 miles away from where Im having the block put in. So what should I do then just drive it there and then do it. Will that be ok to do it with 50 miles already on the engine?
Yes. It's not an exact science. Breaking it in is putting mileage on the motor hard....light.....whatever. What you don't want to do is hurt the engine by pushing it when you have no idea if it's tuned to accpet it.
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