Want To Advance Timing But I Have Superchip, Need Help.

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by FoxMustangLvr, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. FoxMustangLvr

    FoxMustangLvr Mustang Master

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    Under my kick panel I have an ADS Superchip plugged in. From what little info i've read it's mostly for a HP gain for stock Mustangs.

    [​IMG]

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    Do you think I'd be better off without it? My car runs great with it but maybe it could be better if I just pulled it out and advanced the timing to 14*?

    What's a "stock" mustang anyways?
    my mods:
    unknown lopey cam, I have to baby sit the car when I first start it or it will stall.
    CAI
    75mm Pro Flow MAF (yes my 87 is converted)
    JBA shorty headers
    o/r h pipe to flow 40's
    a/c and smog pump delete and short belt
    3:73's
    Stock TB, intake manifold and heads (but could be ported? but doubt it)
    stock 19#

    Car sometimes smells like gas after I turn it off. I know when you delete cats that sometimes you can smell fuel but I think it's caused more by the chip dumping gas in my cylinders.

    Any advice as to keep it as I go forward or to trash it would be appreciated.
     
    #1
  2. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
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    Best way to find out is...use the SOP meter...Before and after you remove the chip.

    Get one of your buddies to ride along with you. Find a level stretch of road where you can do some testing. Watch for the wind speed and direction, it can have a definite impact on your test results.

    Don't choose a speed range that will make you shift gears, the shift quality & speed will affect your results. Use 2nd or 3rd gear and do a run from 2000 RPM to 5800 RPM. Call out the RPM as it increases and have your buddy record it and the elapsed time. If you have one of those cheap digital watches like I do, a stop watch is built in.


    Remove the chip, use a timing light to set the timing and give it a try.

    Setting the timing:
    Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.

    10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.

    Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.

    Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.

    ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
    ---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.

    The ' is 2 degrees.
    The ! is TDC
    The ' is 10 degrees BTC
    Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.

    To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.

    The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see that the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.

    At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.

    Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
    Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.

    Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.

    The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
    Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

    [​IMG]


    As for your idle/stall problems, there may be something other that a cam causing them.

    You guys with idle/stall problems could save a lot of time chasing your tails if you would go through the Surging Idle Checklist. Over 50 different people contributed information to it. The first two posts have all the fixes, and steps through the how to find and fix your idle problems without spending a lot of time and money. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions. You can post questions to that sticky and have your name and idle problem recognized. The guys with original problems and fixes get their posts added to the main fix. :D:

    It's free, I don't get anything for the use of it except knowing I helped a fellow Mustang enthusiast with his car. At last check, it had more than 125,000 hits, which indicates it does help fix idle problems quickly and inexpensively.
     
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  3. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard
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    ahh the ole Superchip! You'll likely be ditching it!
     
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  4. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

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    If I can add, I think you would be very happy to ditch the stock TB and replace it with at least a 65MM, It is choking your engine, especially with a larger MAF. They can be found cheap on junkyard explorer and mountaineer motors and with a simply mod will work on your car.
     
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  5. f8tlfiveo

    f8tlfiveo My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

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    I would imagine the superchip tweaks the timing a bit. So changing your base timing with the chip might not be the best idea. Go to the track, run with the chip, pull the chip and run with advanced timing. Messing around on a back road isn't gonna tell you if there is a 10-15 hp difference. Prob not noticeable
     
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  6. 7991LXnSHO

    7991LXnSHO Well-Known Member

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    I have an obvious question. Why can't you adjust timing WITH a super chip? I would be using the timing light to see how much and about when it advances the spark. I would do this with and without the chip. Unless I am missing something, the super chip might have a better curve. Might it?
     
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  7. f8tlfiveo

    f8tlfiveo My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

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    You sure can adjust it, with my old setup we did all of the timing advance in the computer not with the distributor. When you do it with the distributor the whole curve will get advanced or retarded. If the advance in done into the computer you can set certain parameters on how far you advance and when you want it to occur. So yes you can advance it manually but I would think that the chip would take care of that. Maybe I am wrong, but I would assume that is where the superchip makes the extra power on a stock motor.
     
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  8. FoxMustangLvr

    FoxMustangLvr Mustang Master

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    I'm not exactly sure but I do believe the SuperChip does only two things, advances timing and increases A/F delivery. Anyone know for sure?
     
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  9. FoxMustangLvr

    FoxMustangLvr Mustang Master

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    It may be obvious but after I remove the chip and advance the timing I'm going to need to adjust the idle speed at the TB and adjust the TPS voltage, right?
     
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  10. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
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    No value in adjusting the TPS unless it is out of range. Setting the TPS at .98 or .99 volt is a Bozo Internet Myth. When the computer powers up and initializes the TPS sensor, whatever it reads is the zero starting point for it. In other words your .98 volt becomes 0 volts and the computer watches for increases in voltage from that point upward.

    See http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/698148-help-me-create-surging-idle-checklist.html#post6855020 for the best way to set the mechanical base idle and cleaning procedure for the IAC/IAB.
     
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