What are the Symptoms of Bad Lifters?

[OrangeMustangGt]

i used my origional lifters from my old 100,000plus mustang motor in my new engine , which has a new cam, pushrods,roller rockers, valve springs, so basically the only old things are the roller hydralic lifters. Now, i Do know my rockers are adjusted right. here is my problem, when my car gets hot, the valve train gets really loud, like my lifters arent adjusted correct, or hitting the valve covers lightly. I thought it was my old roller rockers but when i just installed my crane ones, i correctly set the preload, so its not those. the olny thing left is the lifters!? do they do this? OR... some people have said the roller rockers are louder than stock, but damn not this loud right? thanks if you can help

 

[OinkAodeOink]

Sorry i cant help,but im in the same boat as you.. In a hurry to finish my motor, so i installed the old stock lifters. My valvetrain is also noisey, as you describe.

I havent checked the rockers or lifters since, so they could be to blame.

 

[balderman]

i used my origional lifters from my old 100,000plus mustang motor in my new engine , which has a new cam, pushrods,roller rockers, valve springs, so basically the only old things are the roller hydralic lifters. Now, i Do know my rockers are adjusted right. here is my problem, when my car gets hot, the valve train gets really loud, like my lifters arent adjusted correct, or hitting the valve covers lightly. I thought it was my old roller rockers but when i just installed my crane ones, i correctly set the preload, so its not those. the olny thing left is the lifters!? do they do this? OR... some people have said the roller rockers are louder than stock, but damn not this loud right? thanks if you can help

I persoanlly have not had that happen to my engie, but a friend of mine had his go on his saturn. There was a very loud ticking noise coming from the engie. It got faster as he reved the engine...

Not sure if that helps at all..

 

[WhiteDevil]

I have this same problem tooo!!! I thought that my 1.6s were hitting my valve covers. I just thought it was wierd because when its cold or just running normal i get no noise. But when It gets nice and hot there aer like 2 or 3 or them that tap like they are hitting it. So i pulled off my valve covers to see where i needed to grind and there were no marks on them or the cover. So later i switched out to 1.7 rockers, and i gave them a little more preload just to see if that would help. But no still does it. ALso my lifters are new from Ford. Wierd.

 

[1Slow5oh]

This seems to be a common thing around here.. I just got done with the new cam prolly a month ago and was running low on funds so I installed the old lifters.. Mine dont seem to be shot but I am guessing thats whats wrong with yours...

Did you inspect them when you had them out? Were they hard to spin? Did they spin freely? Any noise in the roller when spun? I wish I would have left mine apart untill I got new lifters/rockers/pushrods to install.... But oh well thats what college will do to ya.

 

[WhiteDevil]

Wow, im glad to see that others are having this problem too. I hope someone with a lot of lifter expirience can comin and shed some light on this problem.

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

yeah! the problem i have, is that i have no expireance with roller rockers, noise wise, however i cant see how they would be this loud, cause damn there on bearings. However, like i said above, my valve train is completely new excapt for those lifters, so im really betting thats to blame, if i get a spare 170$ soon, i will put some new crane ones in.....this is my reasoning, when they get hot maby the springs in em get loose, and give the valve train way to much freeplay, so as whell as noise, im getting less valve lift! hmm...i wish someone would know for shure

 

[greenlantern]

Well I had that problem with my pedestal 1.7s they rattled also. I ended up having to go with taller valve covers with the 1.7 rollers, also the 2 rockers on the ends were hitting the valve covers. I grinded the corners off just a hair and that fixed it.
Well I changed heads later and went to stud mount rockers. This is were the hell got started. I put the new 1.7 rollers on and set the lash as instructed which ended up being 3/4 of a turn past zero lash. Well that ended up being to much because it had no compression and wouldn't start. At half a turn it would start but idled like crap. To make a long story short after removing my intake and readjusting about 4 to 5 times my engine didn't find harmony until I set the lash at about 1/4 of a turn past zero lash. This has been the biggest pain in the ass modification I have made to date. I have done tons of reading on this and almost everyones technique is a little different. Here are a few things I learned.

There is hot lash and cold lash. Most places will tell you to adjust your rollers when the engine is hot, why because the components in your valve train will expand or contract depending on the temp of your motor so the lash will be different. Rule of thumb cold motor less lash, hot motor tighter lash.

Two, there are at least 4 different thread sizes out there so 3/4 of a turn could be too much if you have course threads. Or not enough if you have tighter threads.

Three, most sites describle zero lash as this" when you can turn the pushrod with your fingers adjust the nut until you feel tension in the rod". Well I called a race shop and they decrible zero lash as no up or down movement in the arm. They say that this turning the rod with your fingers thing is a little misleading and often causes people to put on too much preload.

Four, your lifters (down in the block) have springs that need a minute to expand before you start adjusting.

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

ok, right now i have one shim under my peds, and im set at 3/4 turn past zero lash when cold. now, that seems sorta on the tight side, so how could i really be getting more play in my setup when it gets hot? unless teh noise is caused by the valves not closing all the way? i dont know....but it starts and runs fine, just idles liek crap, which ithink is something diffrent. for some reason i think it may be my lifters... but maby i should try just as little preload as 1/4 turn? that seems like it may have too much then? no?

 

[greenlantern]

You won't get more play when its hot if anything your gonna get more lift when it gets hot as things expand. The rules for Pedestals are a little different from stud.

The rule for pedestals is that once torqued to 15 ft lbs (assuming you are at the heal of the cam because that is key) you should still be able to turn the pushrod with your fingers. Now Im assuming you couldn't because your using shims. Most of the time you don't need the shims but if after toruqing them down its too much on the rod and it can't be rotated then you will. Dont worry about the 3/4 turn or 1/4 turn stuff because that doesn't apply to pedestal mount RR. I used this technique when I had my pedestals and had no problems. Keep in mind if after you finish you get a little rattle on start up it is normal. Let it get hot and give the lifters time to adjust and it should go away.

If you have valve rattle I don't think you need to be using shims, your creating unnecessary gap which intern causes rattle.

 

[WhiteDevil]

I think the thing that we are saying is not that we are having problems setting the valve lash or anything like that. I also think its interesting that i have stud heads and GreenMustangGT has ped mounts, yet we are expirienceing the same thing. My Valve train is quiet as could be on start up and driving around 98% of the time. But sometimes only when the motor is hot or ive been at the track two or three of my rockers tap just like they were hitting my valve cover or not set to the right preload. Then it goes away only to happen again later on. I have been under a couple times to check and they arent hitting the valve covers and the preload is exactly the same.

 

[greenlantern]

Sounds like you could have some sort of sticking valve. Im not an expert but I did find some info that might help.

http://www.buicks.net/shop/reference/noisy_valve_lifters.html

 

[WhiteDevil]

2. Intermittent Rapping Noise. An intermittent rapping noise that appears and disappears every few seconds indicates leakage at check ball seat due to foreign particles, varnish, or defective surface of check ball or seat. Recondition, clean, and/or replace lifters as necessary.

5.Loud noise at normal operating temperature only. If a lifter develops a loud noise when engine is at normal operating temperature, but is quiet when engine is below normal temperature, it indicates an excessively fast leak down rate or scored lifter plunger. Recondition or replace lifter.

Seems to be what we have. But what the ****. I bought my lifters new when i did my H/C/I like 3 months ago. Thats is freakin gay if a couple were messed up.

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

whell, ahh that explains alot, and thanks guys for the info, the reason i had to play with shims was because i got a crane cam, and needed longer pushrods 3.500 length. i really think my lifters are loud because there old, and everything else is new. However im still not 100% sure that i have em installed correctly, infact i dont know if i could turn the pushrods. What i did was hit zero lash, then touque 3/4 of a turn past that to 15ft.lbs. i dident even check if i could spin the pushrods, also how do u know if your on the heel? i found tDC, then turned 90 deg for each cyl in firing order... is there a more accurate way? eaither way, i used the same shims for each rocker, and they all took ~3/4 a turn from zero lash

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

oh hey white devil, dident that crane cam you bought say to use 1.7's with it in teh paperwork>? mine did

 

[WhiteDevil]

oh hey white devil, dident that crane cam you bought say to use 1.7's with it in teh paperwork>? mine did

yeah it did. But at the time i didnt have money for new rockers but i got a good deal on some 1.6s. I just threw those on there. They just made for less lift. I have 1.7s on there now.

 

[Slow5.0]

Sorry to bring old thread alive but i have to

I have same ticking noise from day one i installed heads,cam,1.6 FRP RR and TFS pushrods, i keept stock lifters, but they are fine before on old heads, i also installed Fox body valve cavers that are grind where supposed to be
So i know i don't have bad RR,lifters,pushrods only thing could be valve covers because they are too small and NOT enough oil goes on RR ???

 

[WhiteDevil]

I have no clue mine has done it since my Heads and cam upgrade and my lifters were new then. Only when the engine is at full temp will i get a slight rapping every once in a while, not sure why though.

 

[Methodical]

Did you install the lifters in the exact same location they came from. Did you check pushrod lengths. I would replace them and start from there. Just my .02. Peace.

 

[WhiteDevil]

Did you install the lifters in the exact same location they came from. Did you check pushrod lengths. I would replace them and start from there. Just my .02. Peace.

All the lifters were new so they didnt have a particular hole. All the pushrods were new hardened units from FRPP and appeared to be the same length, but i use stud mount rockers so i set the lash individually on each one. The car rarely does it so its not like i set the lash wrong. My rockers and lifters are quiet when cold and even mostly when hot sometimes as my rpms come down from say a rev when the car is at full temp a couple of them tap slightly