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Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by what camaro, Mar 5, 2009.
You know what they say. Ignorance is bliss. Mustangs have no stinky poopy.
I just think there's more to drag racing than buying a 550hp car and thinking you're going to win. Anyone who doesn't understand that needs to spend more time at the track watching home brewed combos lay the smack down on high dollar cars.
There is, that is true.
Absolutely. I agree.
Finally, someone who understands what racing is all about. The "faster" car does most definitely not always win. We lived by this credo on the street.
I have no problems with the new Z06's. Never seen one even close to the 10's or 129mph. Fastest I've seen is 12.2 @ 119. Elevation doesn't help her either. Corrected is usually in the 5400ft range. Here's my combo, has not been dyno'd yet.
Dart Block clearance for 408
Trick Flow Highport "R" Cnc'd 225 Race Heads Flow in the mid 350cfm range
TFS Box R Intake
Now I've just finished 35 spline axels, C6 tranny with transbrake. Good night Z06.
Here she is in the car
John Force says Chevy = Fail!
Any forced induction for that bad boy? Even N/A that thing is going to scream!
She's got 8.85:1 compression. Waiting to be able to put a F3 Procharger or 100mm Turbo on her. Crappy economy blew my power adder fund so gotta wait probably til next winter. Oh well. She goes hard now.
Sick sick sick!
She's pretty fun right now even. Talk about tire shredding torque, holy moly. I'll get some better pictures of her now. She has Weld Prostars on her. I've finished all the work underneath her now so she's on the ground, was jacked up all winter in my buddies shop until I had a chance to work on her. Now she looks totally bad ass.
She's still in the air and is pretty dusty here, trust me, on the ground she looks hot.
C6 Tranny Install
Axles and full suspension install
excuse you? lets see...lightning, gt, gt500, and the termi...thats 4 cars with blowers...
count up the number of different NA engines, mod motors alone, and that hardly makes ford "supercharger happy"
im done arguing about why i hate GM. itll derail this already borderline pointless thread.
I can't believe you're putting that much power into your car and are still relying on the stock rear drum brakes to slow you down.
That's because you've been brainwashed into believing that rear drum brakes = poor braking performance, Brian. The gains from discs as opposed to drums is not in stopping power, but in repeated stopping conditions where discs shed heat more rapidly than drums due to increased surface area and because ambient air can travel throughout the entire system. Obviously that's not the case with drums. However, drums are plenty enough to lock up the tires or to keep them on the verge of locking up for one stop from high speed.
You don't even have to have huge brakes out back, especially if you're not running skinnies up front. In that case, your fronts are going to do the vast majority of the work, anyway since that's where the weight tranfers under braking conditions.
Well, considering the majority of vehicle braking is done with the front brakes (which I hope at least they were upgraded), I was making more reference toward braking "control" than stopping power, but either way I have to disagree with you on their capabilities.
It has nothing at all to do with being “brainwashed”. The geometry and by association, clamping force/controlability with the mechanical drum set up if far, far inferior. Hydraulic disk brakes however, even something as bare bones as a set of stock GT rear disks have much...much greater advantage when stacked up to the stock drum brakes the Fox originally came with. If you want to compare surface area, just look at the surface area of the drum shoes in comparison to the tiny rear pads on the disk set up? The drum shoes have a huge size advantage, yet their stopping ability, even cold is still inferior. Couple that with the fact that cable stretch and shoe glazing isn’t only common with rear drum set ups, its inevitable and you could get yourself into real trouble trying to halt the car down from serious speeds in the ¼ before running out of track. And that’s even with stock front tires.....could you imaging the roller coaster ride on a cold track trying to haul a car down from 130-140mph with a set of bias ply skinnies out front defeating most of the effectiveness of your front brakes and a set of inferior stock drum brakes out back to aid the decent. Sign me up for a set of Adult Depend’s please.
For example, only one of my three Fox body Mustangs would lock up the back wheels with the E-Brake no matter how hard I pulled the handle and even then, that was only when brand new. In most cases (and I think most here will agree) if I wanted to prevent my car from rolling away on me even on the slightest grade hills, I needed to leave it in gear to do so. Otherwise there was no guarantee that my car was going to be in the same spot I parked it when I get back. I can't tell you the amount of times I actually drove away with my E-brake on, without know it and the only clue to its existence being the light on my dash.
Hydraulic disk > mechanical drum all the way across the board. Many drag racers stick with the stock drum set up to keep the rotational mass down, but make no mistake.....they compromise safety by doing so.
Wow what a thread!! I would like to try a 08 Z06!
Dude you need some Hans and Franz
511 rwhp and 622ftlbs of torque. show me a 331 with a roots or a centrifugal thats approaching that rwhp and that tq. then look how flat the torque curve is on the turbo motor
Hopefully that didn't offend you. The "brainwashed" part was just me teasing you.
Still, from your last post it seems clear you do not understand drum brakes. Ever had one apart? It's not "mechanical." Drums still use hydraulic pressure just like discs do.
About the E-brake, I never had any problem locking up the rears when I had a drum setup, at least not with adequate pads. They have to be replaced every once in a while you know? In fact, only after I switched to a Baer Disc setup did I have issues with my e-brake. It seems drums do a better job when the linkage is mechanical than discs do. Also, quite contradictory to your point about e-brakes being better with discs, many OEM vehicles use an entirely separate drum specifically for the E-brake. I'm not sure if any of the mustangs did. I've never had their brakes apart.
The bottom line is, are your drums capable of locking the rear tires up at any point while you are braking? Can you keep them on the verge of lock-up throughout the stop? If the answer is yes, then they are just as efficient as any other braking system. At least in a straight line braking situation on dry pavement. I would always recommend a proportioning valve so that you can tune the hydraulic pressure for front and rear brakes independently of each other.
Lastly, when I spoke of surface area, I was referring to brake cooling. Since the pads and inner surface of the drums are not exposed to free flowing air like the disc brakes are, they will not cool as quickly. They will overheat, and after repeated stops, the drum brakes will fade much more quickly than discs will. At some point you will not be able to lock up the tires with the drums, even though you still could if you had a disc system. Continued use of the drum system would result in overheated brake fluid/ and mechanical parts connecting to the lines that could cause line failure. Even without failure, when the brake fluid gets hot enough, it boils. Liquid brake fluid does not compress, but gaseous brake fluid does. Hence, when you step on the pedal the gas compresses instead of pressuring the system enough to stop the car.
In a single stop situation, unless you're moving from incredibly high speeds 150+, I doubt you'll see any significant difference in either braking system.
and I don't get the "braking control" argument, either. More pedal pressure = more stopping power. If the front tires lock up with just a little less pedal than the rears need to lock up, then you're set up correctly. If not, then you need to adjust your prop valve, assuming it's adjustable.