What Ever Happened To...

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by 2000xp8, Dec 30, 2013.


  1. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    NJ
    What ever happened to building a car piece by piece, growing with it and understanding it over a period of time?

    Seems now a good percentage of posts are from guys with no work at all, looking to spend thousands that they may or may not have now or ever.

    Not even sure how many guys understand the nature of a foxbody. 400hp may not be a ton in a new 4000lb car, but it will kill the unsuspecting noob in a 3200lb car with drum rear brakes, no antilock, an airbag that probably won't go off, and lacks traction control.

    Why the skip straight to building an engine? What is this obsession lately with strokers?
    Clearly many of these posts are from guys that aren't experienced enough to be there, because frankly the guys that know what they are doing and can get it done, don't post questions about.
    Nobody even lists the condition of their current engine, they want to replace shortblocks that aren't even bad.

    If they just started with bolt ons, then moved to HCI like the rest of us did, that would be enough time to read and learn about the next step.

    My advice guys, you have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.
    Stop trying to spend all your money at once, only place that will land you is broke with a pile of useless junk in your driveway that you will land up selling for pennies on the dollar.


    Bottom line:
    A H/C/I fox is with quality parts is pretty fast, don't be so quick to dismiss the idea of starting there.
    And if you have to ask about building an engine from the ground up, you aren't there yet.
     
    #1
  2. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt" SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    21,689
    Likes Received:
    319
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I agree. It's right up there with the "I just bought a stock XYZ car, and want to toss a turbo on it. What do I need?"

    That sort of question you aren't gonna get an answer to in one shot. Really need to sit down, do your research and start small and build towards a final goal, rather than going all out in 1 shot
     
    #2
  3. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Messages:
    8,497
    Showcase:
    9
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    a van down by the river
    #3
  4. elarm1

    elarm1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    54
    Location:
    N.Va
    I've always been interested in anything with an engine. I started with lawnmower motors is go carts and its been downhill ever since. Some people just want to say they have it. I love the guys who say "look at my build" but the actually never did anything but paid someone to do it. Sure I could pay someone for what I want but wheres the fun in that?! Almost all my cars were barely running or not even running at all. I love to take time to figure out what makes things tick. Most aren't patient nowadays
     
    #4
  5. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    8,453
    Likes Received:
    699
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Chengdu Province
    @2000xp8 shhhh, don't discourage them. They're the reason why stuff like my hardly used TKO-500 was available for so cheap.
     
    #5
  6. RacEoHolic330

    RacEoHolic330 I like to dress like a pretty girl SN Certified Technician

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,530
    Likes Received:
    736
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    A stiff chassis and well-built suspension doesn't make a street car smash into a utility pole any faster. Need. More. Pawr.
     
    #6
    aar0s, 88LX5.Oh and A5literMan like this.
  7. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,036
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the garage
    yep. most noobs- especially the kiddies- go right to making the car as fast as they can, with not one iota of thought on how that car is going to stop, handle, or if it's safe. I have seen far too many kids wrap their cars around poles and such because they a) don't know how to handle the car, or b) don't understand how to build a car.

    The first thing you should do is make it safer- handling, braking, etc. and then move to making it faster. Problem is, these bench racers and kids onlly care about "how much hp am I making with this combo?" That's why you have all those nice shiny ads in the Mustang rags.
     
    #7
    TOOLOW91 and A5literMan like this.
  8. 91TwighlightGT

    91TwighlightGT Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Missouri
    I think there are a few reasons this happens.

    A lot of the builds seem like the guy who bought it had in mind from the beginning that he wanted to build a car with a monster engine and the Fox fit the bill. I think when people were buying these cars as daily drivers, they were a lot more likely to just kinda upgrade here and there but generally keep the car fairly civil.

    I would bet that upwards of 75% of the users here don't daily their Fox Mustangs anymore. They are mostly just toys these days, and because of that the ambitions of the owners are a little higher.

    Whether that should happen or not? If I were to start from scratch with a Fox Mustang, I probably wouldn't screw around with spending money on parts that didn't fit with my overall build goal. If the plan is to build maximum horsepower, you might as well start with a good block and build a solid foundation with quality parts. Spending money to puts heads on a 302 when you are going to end up building a 408W doesn't make monetary sense. The cam for the H/C/I car probably isn't the one I would choose if I want to go Forced Induction. 3.73 gears are great as a first mod, but are probably not the best choice for a turbo car.

    In reality, slowly upgrading is far more expensive unless you are using all the parts that meet the desired goal, but that can be hard to do because the parts need to work together.
     
    #8
    krazedstang likes this.
  9. old_blue

    old_blue Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,446
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Some even neglect the normal maintenance needed for basic car functions. I tend to like a clean foxbody with a stock engine than one with a ton of horse power and looks like garbage.
     
    #9
    aar0s likes this.
  10. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    NJ
    Not necessarily true.
    If you purchased used quality parts to begin with, most can be sold off to finance the new parts with little loss.
    Injectors, mass air meters, intakes, tb and spacers, rockers etc cost very similar for mild combos and better setups.
    Sell the old to finance the new.

    For heads, if you were to say buy twisted wedges for a 302, send them to TEA and have them cnc'ed for a 347.

    It's like anything else, enough experience or research and you can learn how to properly navigate any situation.

    Do you lose money making changes? Of course, but it doesn't have to be alot.
     
    #10
  11. hoopty5.0

    hoopty5.0 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    134
    Location:
    SW Houston
    HAHAHAHA this was me in High School. I had 2 words in my car vocabulary - "crate" and "motor".

    Now, I start at the back and work my way forward. Night and day difference, I'd say. I'm only 26 now, but in those few years, I've built a handful of cars and have spent countless hours reading and learning. Where did that get me?
    Wisdom!!


    and the crazy idea to put a chevy engine in my Mustang...




    :scratch:





    At any rate, I think people read about what others have done and try to skip the intermediate steps as @2000xp8 said. You'd miss a lot by doing that, and could possibly hurt yourself in teh process.
     
    #11
  12. Chuckman

    Chuckman Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    st. louis, mo
    that all assumes your're actually good at selling stuff, and/or havent broken stuff....ive got a slew of parts ive taken off mine that i've listed that i cant sell, for various reasons (some broken, some no interest, some hoarded, some i just dont want to keep listed for 6 months to get a decent price for).

    also, sometimes the used stuff can cost MORE than new better stuff, especially with engine stuff, cause sometimes you need to fix (or, more likely, HAVE fixed, cause how many people own a machine shop?) some other guys broken-but-sold-as-good crap (we've all seen it, sometimes you get an honest guy selling stuff or you can check it out before hand, but there's plenty of assholes out there).
     
    #12
  13. rdharper02

    rdharper02 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    19
    It's about learning.....hard or easy. I'm not sure if everyone has forgotten, but most of our dreams came out bigger than our pocket books or knowledge base. I wanted a Fox in high school and just couldn't afford it. Unrealistic expectations and dreams come with the game. What I didn't realize 20 years ago was that all the "old" guys who had hot rods also had a decent income, higher standards on quality parts.......oh, and a dependable daily driver.
     
    #13
  14. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    NJ
    Everything has risks, but if you purchase wisely most items other than transmissions and shortblocks don't break. And if you do break it, well you were going to have to invest money anyway to fix it anyway.

    You buy heads, make sure you leave enough room for a valve job, you buy a trans, keep money for a rebuild.
    Part of buying used is using your brain. It's risk reward, if it's too risky, you have to be willing to walk away.

    If there is no interest in something you own, you made a bad choice in parts or payed and are asking too much.
    The good stuff sells, and sells fast.
    Ever see someone with some afr's say they can't sell their heads? Probably not, but try selling some pro comps and see how it goes.
     
    #14
  15. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,338
    Showcase:
    59
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart
    I can answer this portion pretty easily. Have you seen the price tag on "boy-racer" cars these days? They've gone up. They will continue to go up. Half that money can be put into a decent Fox and still make a better ride. Parts are not going up in price as quickly as complete cars are. :chin


    Yyyyup. Been there and done that too. :)
     
    #15
  16. stykthyn

    stykthyn Commander of the snuggie cultists

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    8,115
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Location:
    gainesville
    Hence my advocating the explorer swap. It gives a good amount of oomph without turning the car into guided missile. I dare say that with a decent suspension and adequate brakes it will hold its own on and off the track of your choice. If I was to dive in and buy a car and invest on a stroker by the time I was done investing an lsx powered car would have been in tge same budget and would run just as well if not better out of the box.
     
    #16
  17. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,338
    Showcase:
    59
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart
    Werd... It doesn't require a mint to make them run well.

    That goes along with what the other was dude was trying to point out above as well. I'm talking about the reference to the ones that are too greedy and add power that they've not yet learned to handle. The moral to THAT story is that it can all definitely be done WRONG. Those are the ouchies. :nonono:
     
    #17
  18. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,036
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the garage
    Tru dat. Some people don't get it that when you add another 100hp to a car that came with 225hp stock, other parts of the drivetrain need to be up to the task. Ford designed the car around a stock engine.
     
    #18
  19. stykthyn

    stykthyn Commander of the snuggie cultists

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    8,115
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Location:
    gainesville
    Ford designed this car around a budget. The stock chassis and suspension were barely adequate out of the gate.
     
    #19
    A5literMan likes this.
  20. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    8,453
    Likes Received:
    699
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Chengdu Province
    Ain't nothing wrong with a hot rod that's too fast for its own good. Forget about it, put it back on the road, have more fun. The only failure is when you drive outside of reasonable limits and you put yourself and others in danger.

    [​IMG]
     
    #20

Share This Page