what heads cam. . .

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by JungleJoe, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    Just so you know, even with a chip the factory computer's proccessor is not fast enough to rev past 6400 to 6500 rpms with a load on the motor(You could probably free rev that high). Supposidly you can put a crystal in the computer that makes it faster, but i didnt find any real evidence that this fixed the problem 100%

    Thats the main reason i went with megasquirt, and because of the fact that it was 600 bucks for something i had 100% control over.
     
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  2. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    That's nowhere close to a 400hp car. That's not even a 300hp car. And chassis flex can be mostly cured with a set of $60 weld in full length sub frame connectors. Also, chassis flex it's exclusive to Mustangs either. FBodies suffer from it as well.

    My guess is that as much as you claim to know about LSX's, you know next to nothing about Mustangs.

    It's pretty hard to make the arguement, when you haven' got a firm grasp on the subject matter at hand, don't you think? :scratch:
    Well, they're not just H/C/I cars. You're going to need to do some major weight reduction and work a lot with the suspension (like done with the car above as well). They're obviously not as common as the H/C/I LSX's given the displacement disadvantage and you have to get a lot more selective with the components, but they're out there. Don't recall any example right off hand, but I'm sure I've seen a couple of them right here on this site? Do a quick search, I’m sure you'll find them.

    Doing it with a stroker 331/347 though is cake....but then this bolsters the argument that the LSX's run as fast as they do because of their larger cubic inch advantage...and not because the LSX was touched by the hand of god the way some faithful claim. greater cubes = greater power potential. I don’t think there’s anyone here that would argue that?

    There's nothing all that special or unique about that formula either though? :shrug:
     
    #62
  3. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    So what your saying is you are making claims that have no backing just like the LS guy in this thread.

    I think is rediculous for anyone to say the LS motor isnt a better design. It is, It should be, it has 40 years of technology behind it. There easier to work on than a SBF, have blocks that have been proven to last in 1000 hp real world combinations, and have cylinder heads that can be had for under 1500 that flow 350 CFM(at .600 lift, not .700). Its not magic, no, its technology, and evolution.

    How about the fact that hot rod just did an 4.8L LS engine with very simple top end modifications, and a bone stock bottom end with an increased top ring gap that made over 1200 HP and lived thru 60 pulls on an engine dyno... The goal was to break the motor, they failed

    A SBF could not do that without the help of an aftermarket block, it is questionable if it would have made it thru that test making 600 hp on half number of the pulls.
     
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  4. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    No, there's plenty of backing. It just seems that we're both far too lazy to bother looking it up. ;)

    How much easier to work on is debatable. I cringe when I think of spark plug, or exhaust manifold changes. Heads and intake still come off the same way though, so I'm not really sure where the "easy" part comes in?

    ..and I made no comment about their power holding capability...only their proportional power making capability. Again...not magic....not even technology of evolution. Heavy bottom end, big heads, big intake, big displacement. A great platform for an OE engine for sure, but not a mechanical marvel. And It's a tough engine, no doubt. Just not the unbeatable "ah well, we might as well all pack up and go home" Ford killers the O/P and other GM nut huggers claim them to be. There are too many dyno sheets, time slips and youtube video's out there with the crappy old, small displacement, low tech Mustang coming out on top that prove that. :)
     
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  5. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    What I'll probably do is set the limiter at 6500 and shift at 6300 or so. Even if the computer starts to break up after 6500, I don't want to take it past that since my car still has stock rod bolts, which would be my biggest concern.

    Ford used to sell something called a RPM Extender, which allowed you to adjust A/F and the rev limiter. I'm not positive, but I thought it allowed you to wind the engine past 7000 if you wanted to. Don't quote me on that, though. :p

    Like I've said before, the car may eventually get a stand alone. Depends on what I end up doing with it in the next few years, I guess.

    I agree with you, the LS is probably the "best" factory pushrod motor ever produced. No argument there, and I would actually love to eventually have an LS powered something. But (and I know you've heard be give this shpeel before), throw in what can be done with aftermarket parts and it's a toss up between the LS and the SBF. There are so many similarities between the two engines, and in the aftermarket the tech gets shared. Hell, my cam's intake lobe is straight out of the "LS" section of the Comp Cams lobe catalog.

    So, what I'm saying is:
    Well built H/C/I 302 > Bone stock LS1

    But if you're talking about a well built SBF and a well built LS, it really comes down to budget and block strength (assuming you don't go aftermarket). Everything else is pretty much a wash, assuming you know what you're doing.

    BTW, what $1500 LS heads flow 350 CFM? Not being a smartass, I'm just curious. For a good set of SBF heads that flow that much (like a CNC TW R or a CNC Highport) you're talking well North of $2000. But being a Ford guy isn't cheap, that's one truth that's stood the test of time, haha.
     
    #65
  6. FastDriver

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    His statement is accurate, and I also said it could be done with a 302. I wasn't implying these were full weight street cars, which is why I brought up doing it with a stroker motor. Anyway here are your examples:

    Unfortunately, I can't access his website on this Afghan server, but google "marc arnold" and go to the page on his '93 cobra. He did some super impressive stuff with hydro cammed 302W blocked motors. I wanna say he made 400 rwhp on a 302 or 306. I don't know what he ran timewise, but I'll bet it was quick.

    Jesse Henchel went 10.93 in his n/a EFI 302. I remember when his car was running high 11s. I'm pretty sure he was one of the guys that I imitated when I built my AFR/Cobra/FTI cammed 302 that went high 11s. You can find him in this thread:

    11-10 sec all motor stock block 302 combos - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum

    Also, check out Pure Stock in that thread... 10.59 at a 2800 lbs raceweight is getting it done with only 367rwhp.

    And then of course, there's this: *NEW* 50 Fastest STOCK Shortblock N/A 5.0's *NEW* - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum :nice:

    On that list you'll notice a lot of AFR165 cars near the top of the list, but there are a lot of other combinations on there, too. One of the things I like about what Joe (Pure Stock) says is that it can be done without going over 6500 rpm.

    Chris
     
    #66
  7. FastDriver

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    Nope, my heads have fewer bolts... I think that makes them easier to take off :rlaugh:

    Hey, this poor guy really doesn't have a chance. You and Nik are two of the most challenging guys I've had completely rational arguments with. Now all three of us are united in disagreement against one pour soul...:rlaugh::nice:
     
    #67
  8. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    The GMPP L92 heads are awesome, i want to build a motor just to use them, the ports are monsterous, they flow 320 out of the box for 500 or 600 each from GM, TEA's stage one version flows close to 370cfm for 1600 bucks(core charge) and the LS7 version which is a GM factory CNC head flows 350 CFM

    PRC LS3 and L92 CNC Ported Heads

    Total Engine Airflow | Custom Cylinder Head Assemblies Tallmadge | Airflow Development | Custom Cylinder Head Ohio | TEA Total Engine | CNC Porting | Cylinder Heads | Cylinder Head CNC Porting | Ohio | :: Total Engine Airflow ::
     
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  9. VibrantRedGT

    VibrantRedGT "STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER"
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    You guys really hijacked this thread. I know Nik is likes to derail threads, hey that's it, new title for Nik "King of Thread Derailing".

    To OP, did you put the Holley heads and B-Cam in yet? He might have stuck a post in between all the LS1 talk but I'm not sure.
     
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  10. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    re-usable intake gaskets, and not having to remove the intake manifold to take the lifters out, those are two pretty big things. Would be nice to not have to remove the intake when doing a cam swap on a SBF.
     
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  11. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    Hey, I'm all for giving credit, where credit is due.....but nothing I've seen from the LSX engines has convinced me to flush the blue blood out of my veins and put on a snappy bow tie. :D
     
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  12. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    With our powers combined... :D

    Damn, Chebby guys always have it so good. You can definitely get SBF heads that post similar flow numbers, but you're paying WAYYYYYY more than $1500 for them.

    What's stupid, is the reason Chevy guys have it so good is because this tech trickles down from the Corvette stuff, and GM makes it cheap and easy for the public to get their hands on. Look at how much it costs to buy a brand new Vette cylinder head, then compare it to what it costs to buy a brand new GT500 head. It's retarded.

    Of course, I don't want to bring mod motors into this ****ing match, there's already a thread going on over in Talk about that, haha.

    I'll admit, I'm very ADD, but I can't take credit for this train wreck. It was back on page 1 when 88gt373 posted this gem:

    I hadn't said anything about the LS before that...
     
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  13. VibrantRedGT

    VibrantRedGT "STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER"
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    I'm just kidding, it's good stuff. It would be a nice custom title. I was mod for 8 years on here and gave out custom titles all the time.
     
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  14. 88gt373

    88gt373 Member

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    you mentioned LS motors and i thought id throw my .02 in there about them.. but in the process of doing so i jumped in the the Parana tanks... lol those other guys are good and know alot....
     
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  15. 98gtvert

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    My best friend has an ls1 camaro. He has longtube headers 410 gears lid filter and a few other things. I have an 85 mustang with a 351 292h cam performer rpm intake (ported) 750 carb afr185 heads with 10.5 comp ratio 373 gears, prolly a 350ish rwhp car. Bout a 400 horsepower mustang. he cannot keep it close to me. So if somebody on here thinks that a STOCK ls1 fbody can outrun a legit 400 hp mustang with equal drivers your gonna have to prove it to me. The ls1 is a super engine and can make gobs of horsepower but comparing a car with relistically 350 hp to a significantly lighter 400 hp car is absolutely ridiculous. Not knocking the ls1, great motor, but it is beatable.
     
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  16. FastDriver

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    #76
  17. JungleJoe

    JungleJoe Member

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    :nonono: actually, I'm not going to. You guys scared me off.:D
    My brother is going to use them on his Paxton blower setup.... As far as the cam, I want to use it since i paid 75 bucks for it. Getting some other stuff from from Rick on here....... as soon as we( or I should say I) figure out what to get. . . fixing the wirieng issue and putting the right computer in it this weekend.....then its on like Donkey Kong. Check out the issues I had under the thread "CEL" I posted up....:nice:
     
    #77
  18. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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  19. VibrantRedGT

    VibrantRedGT "STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER"
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    I know it's been beat to death in this thread but the B-cam pretty dated. A better off the shelf cam would be a TFS Stage 1 split duration cam. I have this with a blower, great cam plus it's very affordable and I would buy new especially a cam. You would hate to throw a used one in and it's crap, lots of work for no reason.

    Look into getting a quality set of aluminum heads. It will lighten the car up and make decent power, TFS, AFR, Edelbrock, etc. I've had my GT40X aluminum's for 10+ years now. They aren't the best out of the ones I mentioned but I usually put a blower through them (Vortech in this case).

    That's another thing, if all is well throw a blower on it now. A quality intake, Edelbrock Performer (I gain 40HP with this 70MM Throttle body and 77 MAF), Cobra, etc. and blower would be fun for awhile.
     
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  20. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    I would even consider the TFS cams dated. Again, people have had success with them, but there is better stuff available.

    My recommendation would be a Comp Extreme Energy OTS grind or a custom from any of the good custom cam shops. JungleJoe, you mentioned that Rick is going to hook you up, you should talk to him about a cam.
     
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