Electrical What Relay Is This?

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by Ricos20002, Jul 11, 2013.


  1. Ricos20002

    Ricos20002 Member

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    Im looking for the EEC relay, autozone said under the computer but its not. Not sure what this one is for but it clicks when plug it in but theres not power coming off it, there are 4 wires coming off it: #1-2 are coil. #1 orange w/blue -, #2 red +, #3 pink w/blue ?, #4 open, #5 black w/yellow ?

    Im not able to start the car with out jumping the pin #1 from the computer to pin #19 witch goes to the fuel pump witch turn it on, then I have to jump pin #1 to #37/57 to be able to start it.

    Also Im not able to run the self test, nothing happenes.

    so any help would be wonderful
     

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  2. Grabbin' Asphalt

    Grabbin' Asphalt Mustang Master

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    Believe that is the fuel pump relay, some are found near the right fender engine bay, others are under driver seat. Only other relay on the passenger side engine bay is the an A/C relay near the MAF sensor.
     
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  3. Ricos20002

    Ricos20002 Member

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    Nope its got to be the a/c relay couse fuel pump relay is under driver seat
     
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  4. TOOLOW91

    TOOLOW91 Mustang Master

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    the EEC relay if I am not mistaken is in the right kick panel way above the computer between the dash and the kick panel


    Sent from my iPhone using my fingers
     
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  5. 89stang1

    89stang1 Stroked and Juiced

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    yup jeff is right next to comp behind passenger side kick panel the fuel pump relay under seat dont look like that its a smaller square relay
     
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  6. TOOLOW91

    TOOLOW91 Mustang Master

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    And for the guys wondering about the fuel pump relay 86-89 is under the seat ... mid 90 I think they went to the pass side apron but I cannot verify , I had a 90 that was under the seat as well


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  7. 89stang1

    89stang1 Stroked and Juiced

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    think u got that right brotha i melted my fp relay under drivers seat in my 89
     
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  8. TOOLOW91

    TOOLOW91 Mustang Master

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    my first fox my 90 I had it maybe a week I was going to work shut the car off and the fuel pump never turned off , I kept unplugging the pump everytime I moved it until later that day when I went to get a relay


    Sent from my iPhone using my fingers
     
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  9. Ricos20002

    Ricos20002 Member

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    Thanks guy thinking its computer related going to pick one up at pick n pull for $25 and we'll see it thats it
     
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  10. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    A new computer will not fix the fact that the computer isn't getting power. Fix that problem first BEFORE swapping the computer.

    If you just throw parts at a problem you will just get poorer and frustrated. Find out why you have no power to the computer or if that is the really the problem. If all you want to do is throw parts, time and money at the problem without learning how to troubleshoot and fix things, speak up and I will cease to add items to your post.

    If you don't own a good DVM or Mulitmeter, it is time to buy one. If you do not understand electrical circuits, speak up. All the information I post about fixing electical problems is designed for someone with a reasonable amount of electrical knowledge. If necessary, I can try to simplify the instructional process.


    Start Trobleshooting here:
    Use the diagrams I posted to check power at the computer pins 37 & 57 with the ignition switch in the Run position. No voltage on the two red wires at pins 37 & 57, then you have ignition switch problems, or bad fuse link or bad EEC relay.

    If you do not have power at pins 37 & 57, the fuel pump circuit will not work.

    [​IMG]

    Unless otherwise stated all voltage measurements are made with one meter lead grounded to clean, bare shiny metal for a good ground. If you do not have a good ground, you will have inaccurate results with your voltage measurements.

    Step 1.) The computer is located under the passenger's side kick panel. The EEC relay is mounted on top of it. The EEC relay is somewhat difficult to get at. Removing the passenger side dash speaker may help. Remove the 2 screws in the computer mount and pull the computer down. The EEC relay is mounted on a plastic push in upholstery fastener, and may be difficult to get loose. Pull it down to where you have good access to the wires. You will see 2 black/orange wires which are continuous power feed to the EEC relay. Look for 12 volts on them; they do not depend on the ignition switch being in the Run position to have 12 volt power. No 12 volts and the fuse link is bad.

    Step 2.) Turn the ignition switch to the run position and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire on the EEC relay. No 12 volts then the ignition switch is bad or the ignition fuse link in the red/green wire is bad.
    To check the ignition switch, remove the plastic cover from the bottom of the driver’s side dash. Then remove the plastic cover from the steering wheel. Put the ignition switch in the run position and look for good 12 volts. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is bad. Good 12 volts and the red/green fuse link is bad.

    Step 3.) Good 12 volts on the black orange wires, good 12 volts on the red/green wire with the ignition switch in the run position, no 12 volts on the red wires, check the resistance of the black green wire (EEC relay ground). Ground one meter lead and set your meter to low ohms. Measure the resistance between ground and the black/green wire you should see less than 1 ohm.
    If you see less than 1 ohm, the EEC relay is bad, or the relay socket may be corroded or damaged.

    [​IMG]

    Fuse links come with a current rating just like fuses. A clue as to what current they are designed for is to look at the size wire they protect.

    Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Fuel Pump Troubleshooting for 87-90 Mustangs

    Revised 10-Aug-2012 to update fuel pump run time on initial startup

    Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 1-3 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the upper LH corner to ground.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If the fuse links are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. A tire pressure gauge can also be used if you have one - look for 37-40 PSI. Beware of fire hazard when you do this.

    No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
    A.) Tripped inertia switch – press reset button on the inertia switch. The hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch

    B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most Mustangs built before 92. It is located under the MAF on 92 and 93 cars. Be careful not to confuse it with the A/C WOT cutoff relay which is in the same area. See the diagram to help identify the fuel pump relay wiring colors. Be sure to closely check the condition of the relay, wiring & socket for corrosion and damage.
    C.) Clogged fuel filter
    D.) Failed fuel pump
    E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness.
    F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect
    for fuel escaping while pump is running.

    The electrical circuit for the fuel pump has two paths, a control path and a power
    path.

    The control path consists of the inertia switch, the computer, and the fuel pump relay coil. It turns the fuel pump relay on or off under computer control. The switched power (red wire) from the ECC relay goes to the inertia switch (red/black wire) then from the inertia switch to the relay coil and then from the relay coil to the computer (tan/ Lt green wire). The computer provides the ground path to complete the circuit. This ground causes the relay coil to energize and close the contacts for the power path. Keep in mind that you can have voltage to all the right places, but the computer must provide a ground. If there is no ground, the relay will not close the power contacts.

    The power path picks up from a fuse link near the starter relay. Fuse links are like fuses, except they are pieces of wire and are made right into the wiring harness. The feed wire from the fuse link (orange/ light blue wire) goes to the fuel pump relay contacts. When the contacts close because the relay energizes, the power flows through the contacts to the fuel pump (light pink/black wire). Notice that pin 19 on the computer is the monitor to make sure the pump has power. The fuel pump has a black wire that supplies the ground to complete the circuit.

    Remember that the computer does not source any power to actuators, relays or injectors, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

    [​IMG]

    Now that you have the theory of how it works, it’s time to go digging.

    All voltage reading are made with one voltmeter lead connected to the metal car body unless otherwise specified

    Check for 12 volts at the red wire on the inertia switch. No 12 volts at the inertia switch, the ignition switch is turned off or faulty or there is no power to the ECC (computer ) power relay. To be sure look for good 12 volts on the red wire on any fuel injector:
    good 12 volts mean the ECC relay is working. No 12 volts and the ECC wiring is at fault.
    Look for 12 volts on the red/green wire on the ignition coil: no 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty, or the fuse link in the ignition power wire has blown. No 12 volts here and the ECC relay won’t close and provide power to the inertia switch. Check the Red/black wire on the inertia switch, it should have 12 volts. No 12 volts there, either the inertia switch is open or has no power to it. Check both sides of the inertia switch: there should be power on the Red wire and Red/Black wire. Power on the Red wire and not on the Red/Black wire means the inertia switch is open. Push the button on the side of it to reset it, and then recheck. Good 12 volts on one side and not on the other means the inertia switch has failed.

    Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt. Blue wire (power source for fuel pump relay). No voltage or low voltage, bad fuse link, bad wiring, bad ignition switch or ignition switch wiring or connections. There is a mystery connector somewhere under the driver’s side kick panel, between the fuel pump relay and the fuse link.

    Turn on the key and jumper the fuel pump test connector to ground as previously described. Look for 12 volts at the Light Pink/Black wire (relay controlled power for the fuel pump). No voltage there means that the relay has failed, or there is a broken wire in the relay control circuit.

    Pump wiring: Anytime the ignition switch is in the Run position and the test point is jumpered to ground, there should be at least 12 volts present on the black/pink wire. With power off, check the pump ground: you should see less than 1 ohm between the black wire and chassis ground.

    [​IMG]

    The yellow wire is the fuel tank sender to the fuel quantity gage. The two black wires are grounds. One ground is for the fuel tank sender and the other is the fuel pump. The ground for the fuel pump may be larger gauge wire that the fuel tank sender ground wire.

    Make sure that the power is off the circuit before making any resistance checks. If the circuit is powered up, your resistance measurements will be inaccurate.

    You should see less than 1 Ohm between the black wire(s) and ground. To get some idea of what a good reading is, short the two meter leads together and observe the reading. It should only be slightly higher when you measure the black wire to ground resistance.

    The Tan/Lt Green wire provides a ground path for the relay power. With the test connector jumpered to ground, there should be less than .75 volts. Use a test lamp with one side connected to battery power and the other side to the Tan/Lt Green wire. The test light should glow brightly. No glow and you have a broken wire or bad connection between the test connector and the relay. To test the wiring from the computer, remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector. It has a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place. With the test lamp connected to power, jumper pin 22 to ground and the test lamp should glow. No glow and the wiring between the computer and the fuel pump relay is bad.

    Computer: If you got this far and everything else checked out good, the computer is suspect. Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector located under the hood. Probe computer pin 22 with a safety pin and ground it to chassis. Make sure the computer and everything else is connected. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position and observe the fuel pressure. The pump should run at full pressure.
    If it doesn't, the wiring between pin 22 on the computer and the fuel pump relay is bad.
    If it does run at full pressure, the computer may have failed.

    Keep in mind that the computer only runs the fuel pump for about 2-3 seconds when you turn the key to the Run position. This can sometimes fool you into thinking the computer has died. Connect one lead of the test light to power and the other lead to computer pin 22 with a safety pin. With the ignition switch Off, jumper the computer into self test mode like you are going to dump the codes. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position. The light will flicker when the computer does the self test routine. A flickering light is a good computer. No flickering light is a bad computer.
    Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector located under the hood.

    Fuel pump runs continuously: The fuel pump relay contacts are stuck together or the Tan/Lt Green wire has shorted to ground. In extreme ghetto cases, the pump relay may have been bypassed. Remove the fuel pump relay from its socket. Then disconnect the computer and use an ohmmeter to check out the resistance between the Tan/Lt Green wire and ground. You should see more than 10 K Ohms (10,000 ohms) or an infinite open circuit. Be sure that the test connector isn’t jumpered to ground.
    If the wiring checks out good, then the computer is the likely culprit.

    Prior to replacing the computer, check the computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire. You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness

    If all of the checks have worked OK to this point, then the computer is bad. The computers are very reliable and not prone to failure unless there has been significant electrical trauma to the car. Things like lightning strikes and putting the battery in backwards or connecting jumper cables backwards are about the only thing that kills the computer.



    See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

    Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

    Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

    Ignition switch wiring
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

    Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif


    Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

    HVAC vacuum diagram
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

    TFI module differences & pin out
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

    Fuse box layout
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

    87-92 power window wiring
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang87-92 PowerWindowWiring.gif

    93 power window wiring
    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang93PowerWindows.gif
     
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  11. 89stang1

    89stang1 Stroked and Juiced

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    last time i checked on my 89 computer was behind passenger side kick panel
     
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  12. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Thanks for catching my typo...:)
     
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  13. 89stang1

    89stang1 Stroked and Juiced

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    :nice:
     
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  14. Ricos20002

    Ricos20002 Member

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    The other day i checked pins 37/57 no power, checked ignition and theres power at pin 16 red w/green that goes to the EEC, so its got to fusable link or EEC relay. I haven't been able to look for the EEC relay. Im going to check the fusable link again, thinking i may over looked it, or when i checked it i had the jumpers in the fuel relay, and i only used a light probe too. Oh how far up is that ECC relay? I stuck my hand pretty far up there and didnt feel it.

    I appreciate all your help!!! The only thing that worries me when i jump the pins at the fuel pump to start the car i still get no check engine light or self test.
     
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  15. Ricos20002

    Ricos20002 Member

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    Ok found the EEC relay and its bad, installed new one. Now we got power to 37/57 in the run position, so we're good there. Now the computer is not sending a negative signal on pin 22 to the fuel relay, i put ground to pin 22 and the fuel pump worked. also i can start the car if i put a jumper on the fuel pump test point. So im thinking the guy i got it from shorted the computer by jumping the pins on the fuel pump relay. New computer time.
     
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  16. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Computer will not go into diagnostic mode on 86-90 model 5.0 Mustangs

    Disconnect the battery positive terminal before making any resistance checks.
    The voltage drop in the ground cable will cause incorrect resistance readings.


    How it is supposed to work:
    The black/white wire (pin 46) is signal ground for the computer. It provides a dedicated ground for the EGR, Baro, ACT, ECT, & TPS sensors as well as the ground to put the computer into self test mode. If this ground is bad, none of the sensors mentioned will work properly. That will severely affect the car's performance. You will have hard starting, low power and drivability problems. Since it is a dedicated ground, it passes through the computer on its way to the computer main power ground that terminates at the battery pigtail ground. It should read less than 1.5 ohms when measured from anyplace on the engine harness with the battery pigtail ground as the other reference point for the ohmmeter probe.

    What sometimes happens is that the test connector black/white wire gets jumpered to power which either burns up the wiring or burns the trace off the pc board inside the computer. That trace connects pins 46 to pins 40 & 60.

    The STI (Self Test Input ) is jumpered to ground to put the computer into test mode. Jumpering it to power can produce unknown results, including damage to the computer. The ohm test simply verifies that there are no breaks in the wiring between the test connector and the computer input.

    How to test the wiring :
    With the power off, measure the resistance between the computer test ground (black/white wire) on the self test connector and battery ground. You should see less than 1.5 ohms.

    [​IMG]

    If that check fails, remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector. There is a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place. Measure the resistance between the black/white wire and pin 46 on the computer wiring connector: it should be less than 1.5 ohms. More that 1.5 ohms is a wiring problem. If it reads 1.5 ohms or less, then the computer is suspect. On the computer, measure the resistance between pin 46 and pins 40 & 60: it should be less than 1.5 ohms. More that that and the computer’s internal ground has failed, and the computer needs to be repaired or replaced.

    See http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/749974-computer-issue.html#post7490537 for Joel5.0’s fix for the computer internal signal ground.

    If the first ground check was good, there are other wires to check. Measure the resistance between the STI computer self test connector (red/white wire) and pin 48 on the computer main connector: it should be less than 1.5 ohms. More that 1.5 ohms is a wiring problem

    The following is a view from the computer side of the computer wiring connector: it is for an A9L, A9P computer.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

    Check out the diagram and notice all the places the black/white wire goes. Almost every sensor on the engine except the MAF is connected to it.

    [​IMG]

    See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
    (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine

    See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Ricos20002

    Ricos20002 Member

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    Ok I took apart the computer and found a trace fried fixed it, reinstalled and now the check engine comes on, but still no self test or fuel pump signal from pin 22. Checked 46,40, and 60 all are 1.0 ohm. Going to check STI and 48 next to see what we got, but I'm thinking it the computer. Thanks again for your help.
     
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