Which is faster and more fun?

[Modular2v]

All I was saying was some do not split the block. My friend's car was low 9's and never split the block. Yes, it's better to BUY AN AFTERMARKET BLOCK.

Fixt!

Low 9s on a stock block? Does he hold the national record? I know of several people running high 9s but the fastest i have seen is 9.58 i believe! When you say low 9s i take that you are implying 9.0-9.30s?

 

[millhouse]

maybe you should look at my sig Im trying to keep people from wasting the money i wasted! Some of you still are not understanding the concept that you dont need HCI to get the power that the block is limited to!

The problem with using the stock longblock is it's going to take more boost to achieve the same numbers compared to a h/c/i + boost setup. The stock heads have a very thin deck and are prone to lifting under higher boost levels. Those higher boost levels will also create more heat, which will require something to cool it down.

In the end, a h/c/i + boost setup running 450rwhp is going to be more reliable than a stock boosted longblock setup running 450rwhp.

Lets not forget that there are many running around with block splitting horsepower that have yet to split the block. There are also plenty that have split the block and done no damage to the cyl heads.

Uprgrading the heads, intake and valvetrain is not pointless...and can atually aid the reliability of the combo.

 

[Modular2v]

The problem with using the stock longblock is it's going to take more boost to achieve the same numbers compared to a h/c/i + boost setup. The stock heads have a very thin deck and are prone to lifting under higher boost levels. Those higher boost levels will also create more heat, which will require something to cool it down.

In the end, a h/c/i + boost setup running 450rwhp is going to be more reliable than a stock boosted longblock setup running 450rwhp.

Lets not forget that there are many running around with block splitting horsepower that have yet to split the block. There are also plenty that have split the block and done no damage to the cyl heads.

Uprgrading the heads, intake and valvetrain is not pointless...and can atually aid the reliability of the combo.

1. yes i know, MINE IS ONE OF THEM! That doesnt make me any less of a retard for not doing more investigating in what i should/shouldnt have done in mods!
2. Your statements still dont disreguard the fact that a turbo alone will push a car as far as you want as far as power is concerned and wont cost as much money as a hci /turbo car!I have a friend that is running ported e7s,tfs 1 cam and a turbo and runs 9.90s@140mph! Its more of a money risk to stack a 1200 dollar set of heads on a ticking time bomb! Reguardless if the heads are on there or not, its just a matter of time! I would rather have the 1200 in my bank account than sitting on top of a ticking grenade!

 

[Modular2v]

double post

 

[millhouse]

1. yes i know, MINE IS ONE OF THEM
2. Your statements still dont disreguard the fact that a turbo alone will push a car as far as you want as far as power is concerned and wont cost as much money as a hci /turbo car! Its more of a money risk to stack a 1200 dollar set of heads on a ticking time bomb! Reguardless if the heads are on there or not, its just a matter of time! I would rather have the 1200 in my bank account than sitting on top of a ticking grenade!

The turbo alone will require higher boost levels and make the car just that much more unreliable. There are many people that have major issues getting the stock heads to keep from lifting when running those high boost levels. Lets not forget too the need to cool the intake temps, quite often more than you typical air-air intercooler can provide. Quite often a meth injection is going to be needed in order to run the timing needed to produce the higher numbers.

In the end, the people that end up splitting their blocks come out with heads that are just fine. Sure, there are instances where damage has been done to the heads, but even then...many can be repaired for relatively cheap.

The way you are making it sound is that if the engine splits, your heads are going to be destrotyed...and this simply in not necessarily true.

 

[strtrcr50]

I meant aftermarket block. Sorry. And I don't know. Perhaps my friend exagerated things to me. BTW, it's getting an aftermarket block now.

 

[Modular2v]

the blower will eventually exceed the stock blocks limits so.....No sense in having the block split and potentially have a rod let go taking out a nice set of cylinder heads

The above shows that im not implying that the heads will 100% of the time be a loss

 

[millhouse]

The above shows that im not implying that the heads will 100% of the time be a loss

Perhaps not, but your wording in previous posts imply that it will happen a majoity of the time. From everything that I have seen/heard, it's far less common than you are making it sound.

 

[bentley429]

Perhaps not, but your wording in previous posts imply that it will happen a majoity of the time. From everything that I have seen/heard, it's far less common than you are making it sound.

Alot of times from what I have seen the heads do get damaged but like you said most times they can be repaired. Its a toss up but my vote is still for stock long block/turbo. Even 400 rwhp or something is pretty nasty, will keep the boost down and would be reliable.

 

[Modular2v]

Alot of times from what I have seen the heads do get damaged but like you said most times they can be repaired. Its a toss up but my vote is still for stock long block/turbo. Even 400 rwhp or something is pretty nasty, will keep the boost down and would be reliable.

exactly......

Some people just dont get it Besides this whole thread is about which is faster a hci car or a forced induction car.......You tell me which one has more potential on a "streetable" setup

 

[2000xp8]

I pretty agree with everything millhouse has posted above.
Especially the part about the stock heads lifting.
Blow a HG without knowing it, and the coolant washes out the rings and all you have left is a pile of junk that burns 3 quarts of oil every time you get into the boost.
Its more reliable to have a car that makes maximum NA power with the addition of minimal boost, than it is to have a car that makes all it's power with boost.
I'd rather make 400rwhp with 4lbs than 400rwhp with 17lbs.
Boost kills HG's, that's not a myth. Blame it on whatever you want, tune, old gaskets, bad install, doesn't matter, it still happens.

And bentely, a turbo or SC on a stock short block typically produces low 12's correct?
So can a HCI setup.

 

[Modular2v]

I pretty agree with everything millhouse has posted above.
Especially the part about the stock heads lifting.
Blow a HG without knowing it, and the coolant washes out the rings and all you have left is a pile of junk that burns 3 quarts of oil every time you get into the boost.
Its more reliable to have a car that makes maximum NA power with minimal boost, than it is to have a car that makes all it's power with boost.
I'd rather make 400rwhp with 4lbs than 400rwhp with 17lbs.

And bentely, a turbo or SC on a stock short block typically produces low 12's correct?So can a HCI setup.

try, as fast as you want until the block splits! Like i said i know several people in the 9s on 12lbs of boost! If you are so dead set on the head gasket lifting, bye some head studs (should be running anyway on any type of forced induction) Or you could even have the heads o-ringed!

 

[bentley429]

I pretty agree with everything millhouse has posted above.
Especially the part about the stock heads lifting.
Blow a HG without knowing it, and the coolant washes out the rings and all you have left is a pile of junk that burns 3 quarts of oil every time you get into the boost.
Its more reliable to have a car that makes maximum NA power with the addition of minimal boost, than it is to have a car that makes all it's power with boost.
I'd rather make 400rwhp with 4lbs than 400rwhp with 17lbs.
Boost kills HG's, that's not a myth. Blame it on whatever you want, tune, old gaskets, bad install, doesn't matter, it still happens.

And bentely, a turbo or SC on a stock short block typically produces low 12's correct?
So can a HCI setup.

Studs and decent gaskets will deff help clear up the HG problem. Who needs 17 psi to make 400 rwhp with a turbo? Try 10... This guy said he had about 3k saved up, granted my way would be about 4k but looks like your now on option "D"? h/c/i and boost? That would be what? $6500 or so?

To the last comment towards me, incorrect. Why dont you take a wander over to turbomustangs....

 

[Modular2v]

Studs and decent gaskets will deff help clear up the HG problem. Who needs 17 psi to make 400 rwhp with a turbo? Try 10... This guy said he had about 3k saved up, granted my way would be about 4k but looks like your now on option "D"? h/c/i and boost? That would be what? $6500 or so?

To the last comment towards me, incorrect. Why dont you take a wander over to turbomustangs....

exactly

 

[millhouse]

try, as fast as you want until the block splits! Like i said i know several people in the 9s on 12lbs of boost! If you are so dead set on the head gasket lifting, bye some head studs (should be running anyway on any type of forced induction) Or you could even have the heads o-ringed!

That's great...however they are not running 9's @ 12lbs on a stock longblock. They guys that are doing such are running 17+lbs...and are certainly not doing so on a street tune and without the aid of racing fuel and meth injection.

FYI, head studs do not cure the stock heads thin deck. They certainly can help, but a thin deck is a thin deck is a thin deck. It takes some effort to keep them nice and tight for higher boost levels....so much to the point that chances are, they wont blow at all. I myself prefer the method of using a gasket as a fuse.

 

[bentley429]

FYI, head studs do not cure the stock heads thin deck. They certainly can help, but a thin deck is a thin deck is a thin deck. It takes some effort to keep them nice and tight for higher boost levels....so much to the point that chances are, they wont blow at all. I myself prefer the method of using a gasket as a fuse.

You are right but you shouldnt need to worry about that at low boost such as 8-10 psi.

 

[millhouse]

You are right but you shouldnt need to worry about that at low boost such as 8-10 psi.

No doubt, but at 8-10psi you are not yet at the limits of the stock block (on a stock longblock). Once you start trying to keep up with the h/c/i guys the boost levels quickly raise. What takes a h/c/i setup 8psi t reach 500rwhp, it commonly takes 14+psi to reach those same levels on a stock longblock setup.

 

[Modular2v]

That's great...however they are not running 9's @ 12lbs on a stock longblock. They guys that are doing such are running 17+lbs...and are certainly not doing so on a street tune and without the aid of racing fuel and meth injection.

FYI, head studs do not cure the stock heads thin deck. They certainly can help, but a thin deck is a thin deck is a thin deck. It takes some effort to keep them nice and tight for higher boost levels....so much to the point that chances are, they wont blow at all. I myself prefer the method of using a gasket as a fuse.

WRONG! They are running 101 octance through a stock long block! Only mods are tfs1 cam, and ported heads! Through an AOD non the less!

 

[millhouse]

WRONG! They are running 101 octance through a stock long block! Only mods are tfs1 cam, and ported heads! Through an AOD non the less!

Wrong about what? A stock longblock is a stock longblock....which they certainly dont have.

I'd also venture to say they have extended lightening done and it's more than likely setup for track duty only.

Also, AOD's are much more track friendly than their manual counterparts...and are quite often (especially in the case of turbo setups) faster.

 

[2000xp8]

Senseless and double the work to choose a power adder over heads, then install it, then unistall it to change the gaskets and bolts when the HG blows.

If you have to go that deep in the engine, you might as well of just done a HCI install to be with. Changing the gaskets on stock heads, is a waste of perfectly good gaskets, especially since they are sure to blow again especially on a power adder car that has the crap kicked out of it on the street.

And a stock long block does not have a cam or ported heads. that would be a stock Shortblock.
And let me guess, the block is filled?