Why is the LS1 so much better than a 351W?

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by 9 Deuce GT, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. 9 Deuce GT

    9 Deuce GT New Member

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    After reading Dbeck002's post about his races with a H/C/I Camaro, I have some questions. I am not certain if this car had the LS6 package or a piece together combo, so I did some research. Some websites are claiming to give 475 RWHP with the LS6 package on an LS1 Camaro/Firebird. Would this be a street legal build? If so how can the LS1 do it and not a 351W? I have been asking a few questions about how to get 400 RWHP out of my future 351W swap, and most replies were I could not do it and be emissions legal. WTF? How can the Chevy's do it? Is the LS1 that much better of an engine?
     
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  2. Dbeck002

    Dbeck002 New Member

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    I suppose the nature of the LS1 is topend. And when this is the case, dyno numbers are generally high. LS1s with the HCI and bolt ons can make a lot of power because they see torque later in the RPM band. Its just the nature of the beast.

    A 351W could probably do the same thing, a good set of AFRs and a mild cam could get 450 RWHP out of one. Plus 351Ws are not always EFI which is worse for tuning, the LS1 is fuel injected so that is an advantage. I cant think of anything else.


    BTW when I raced the LS1 his lowend was very poor even with 3.73s, they are more highway cars than anything else. He told me he ran a 12.40 with his combo which is funny because that car should be in the 11s, his trap speed was something like 115 though. They are topend engines with topend numbers.
     
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  3. Dbeck002

    Dbeck002 New Member

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    Plus I had the fat kid.
     
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  4. _jb_

    _jb_ New Member

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    Technology baby.

    I was going to build a 347 stroker for my 88, but it wouldn't be making the same power an LS1 would. Unless I planed on buying a Dart block or something.

    The only reason why LS1s are slower off the line is due to the cams I believe. If he has the "LS6 heads", the he prodably has the LS1 cam, or the LS6. Either way, they are setup the same.
     
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  5. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    take it from me...

    ls1s make next to nothing downlow, my t/a was boring as hell to drive.

    hauled ass though
     
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  6. IntenseBlue

    IntenseBlue New Member

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    Compression ratio has alot to do with it plus they're all aluminum, allowing you to run more timing. They have nothing on bottom because they have 3.23 or 3.42 gears with a 2.66 first gear ratio.
     
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  7. Synned

    Synned took tubgirl on a date and got banned

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    Dont they have very good volumetric efficiency or something along those lines? Like the air pulses itself in?
     
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  8. _jb_

    _jb_ New Member

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    1st gear almost felt the same to me, comparing my WS6 (3.42) vs. my 88 with 2.73s. My WS6 needs about 1600RPMS to move, compared to almost 2k on my 88 when it had 2.73s.
     
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  9. broken_joke

    broken_joke Member

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    i think it all has to do with the heads that come stock on the ls1. i think the have like 205 cc intake runners or something close to that.
     
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  10. 9 Deuce GT

    9 Deuce GT New Member

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    No offense guys, but this does not answer my question. Why can't a street legal 351W make this knid of power?
     
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  11. IntenseBlue

    IntenseBlue New Member

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  12. PRO50SC

    PRO50SC New Member

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    I have a buddy who has an 02 Z. Heads and cam, full exhaust. Put out 450!!! Was bad ass!!!
     
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  13. retro50

    retro50 New Member

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    The LS-1 Heads are state of the art. The flow figures alone are pretty good. I have a friend that has a 02 Camaro with a stroker LS-1. 427 cube smallblock. It has 500 h.p. at the rear tires N.A. He's gone 10.80's on E.T. Streets. If you saw the car. It looks like any other Camaro Driving down the road. Untill you look close, You Get to see the rollcage. This thing is the ultimate sleeper.He also has another 02 convertible with Heads, Cam, Intake,That runs low to mid 11,s. He doesn't run this one anymore due to the lack of a roll cage.The track officials told him don't come back without one.
     
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  14. old_blue

    old_blue Active Member

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    I can't see why they can't. I gotta tell you though, most people on here are just basic bolt on and go peeps. YOu gotta remember when chevy built the lt1 and ls1 they already had it in the vette and it was tried and true. A lot of research was put into those engines and matching supporting parts to be streetable. Ford didn't see it that way with the 351w. It's main reason was to put it in a truck and go. Trucks have less emission restrictibility hence why the 5.0 was in trucks in the mid to late 90's versus the cars being gone mid 90's. Chevy spent a lot of money on those engines and unless you have the means to do the same with a 351 yourself you are at the mercy of aftermarket parts amd matching those up.
     
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  15. sickboystang

    sickboystang New Member

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    I really dont see why it couldnt, other than there not being any smog legal heads big enough to support the power? and there may be, I never really paid attention. the rest of the EFI stuff is legal and could support that power and the cam could be ground to be sniffer friendly. I would think it possible to build a 393 with Windsor Srs (thats the only head big enough I can think of thats legal) and a Track Heat intake and a custom grind emission cam should make that kind of power...maybe?
     
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  16. tjm73

    Founding Member

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    Power is all about processing air and fuel.

    The LS1 has a killer set of heads and intake. Flow something like 270ish cfm from the factory. CNC ported is like 300cfm.

    If you had serious flowing heads and an intake that could support that flow and cammed it correctly, you could have those numbers pretty easy.

    Trouble is those flow numbers are not available in smog legal Ford heads. And there aren't any intakes that can support the flow while maintaining emissions legality.

    I live near Rochester, NY and I think Geneva has the same inspections requiremetns as I do. You aren't that far away. I think you could eliminate EGR and run AFR 205's with a TrickFlow Box intake with a custom cam and easily hit 400 rwhp whiel still slipping through the inspection process since we don't sniff test in Upstate NY. You only need to pass a visual "it's there and appears to be working" test.
     
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  17. bimmertech

    bimmertech New Member

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    because the ls1 is based on a second wave pulse tune, and all the ford crap is on a third wave pulse.

    have you ever seen the intake port on an ls1 head? work of art!!!

    look, the lsx was not made on the 7th day or anything like that, but it is--so far--the pinnacle of pushrod technology.

    you cannot compare a 351w to any ls engine.
     
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  18. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    if it takes 1600 to get your WS6 moving.. you need practice driving a manual transmission..

    like 1k or 1100rpm to get it going from a stop light w/o a studder is all that was needed for me..

    now my 5.0 with 3.73's you could take right off of idle..

    Cliffnotes:

    LS1's are fast
    LS1's are boring to drive and have a power band similar to a 4cylinder (1st gear ran off to 44mph) even longer with a cam.


    I've owned both.. had both cars running low 12's

    I liked my stone age iron headed motor and steeper gears

    the LS1 was a great car/motor but felt like a supra as opposed to a 5.0
     
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  19. old_blue

    old_blue Active Member

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    also, just because a part says "50 state legal" doesn't mean it will pass emissions sniffer. Most of those "50 state legal" tests on those parts are done on stock motors with no other mods. So when you had heads and a cam with that intake, it may no longer pass. food for thought
     
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  20. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    oops.. goofed.
     
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