Why no 6 speed love?

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by Epiphany, Apr 3, 2004.

  1. Rampant

    Rampant New Member

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    The only thing about the "it's gonna' cost you" argument is the stiff competition from cars like the Z. Nissan can build a car with 280hp, IRS, 6spd., etc. at start them at $27k. So, it shouldn't be that difficult (expensive) for Ford to do the same, especially since they are domestic. I am not comparing cars here, namely costs of components.

    Personally, if the 5 spd. is geared properly, I don't mind shifting less during the driving I do (especially sub-25mph stop-and-go fwy driving).
     
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  2. SVTdriver

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    While yes it is true that the z can be built with all those and start at $27. It is also sharing it's platform with at least one other car. While at least currently the mustang is not. It may have been partly based on the lincoln LS. But it is not the same chassis. So that may be one reason. The other reason may be that if you put the IRS and 6 speed in the V6 it would put it into a higher price point. Since the mustang sells in bulk in V6 form it would then hurt sales.
     
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  3. mransr

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    :rolleyes:

    only if the ratio's are wrong...(IE 2 overdrive gears like in the F-body's...and they are only there to help with GM's CAFE and emission numbers)...motorcycles and small displacment race cars (like F1 and Rally cars) use 6 + 7 speed transmissions to keep their small engines in their narrow powerbands...that's not really a big issue for V-8 Mustangs...Mustangs also get pretty good mileage and low enough emissions without the crutch of a second O/D gear, so why add the extra cost?
     
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  4. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    You know if the Mustang came with the T-56 all these years and the Camaro had a 5 speed all the mustang guys would be busting on the Camaro for the lack of 6 gears. ;)

    THe first issue is cost, the Stang 5 speed is cheaper than a T-56, the T-56 in the Camaro cost the same as an automatic. The Second issue is torque, the T-56 can handle a boat load if torque, in Lingenfelter TT Vettes they don't even need to upgrade the tranny. The Mustang GT just doesn't put out the power to require the upgrade to a T-56.
     
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  5. 65conv50

    65conv50 New Member

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    No Dave, it's not. My Firebird 6-speed is 1/1 in 4th. Just the same as a 4-speed or my Mustang 5 speed. 5th is overdrive, and 6th is a second, very tall overdrive for highway. You can't drive in 6th at less than 60 MPH. That would not be true if it were just closer ratio. The lower gears are no closer together than a 4-speed.
     
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  6. 65conv50

    65conv50 New Member

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    Your racing 6-speeds copmparison is not valid. The 6-speeds we are talking about is 2 overdrives, with engine speed below 2000 at 75 MPH+. It takes a lot of torque for that. IF it were a ratio thing to keep engine speed within a narrow torque band, your statement would be true, but we are talking about double overdrive transmissions for the highway, not racing specialties.
     
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  7. 65conv50

    65conv50 New Member

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  8. Mach460

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    Probably for the same reason the Mustang doesn't get any IRS love either.....

    I.E....People want to keep the Mustang firmly rooted in the 60's.
     
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  9. Rootus

    Rootus Officially Addicted

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    Either that or they want good horsepower & handling for a minimal amount of cash. I'd bet that 90% of the people driving the car would rather have the $1000 instead of the IRS, since they won't be able to tell the difference. The Cobra exists for those folks who want to blow more money and get the doo-dads like T56's and IRS (I'm part of that group :D).

    Dave
     
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  10. Mach460

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    I'm not get into that argument (again :rolleyes: ). I'm resigned to the fact that GT will never have IRS and the drag racers will always get their way at Ford.

    I do take issue with the fact tha Mustang meant for road racing doesn't get IRS though (the GT-R). Fer chrissakes Ford...if you're going road racing...don't listen to the drag racers.
     
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  11. 65conv50

    65conv50 New Member

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    I beg to differ. 90% of the people buying cars don't know the difference between IRS and live axle, but they CERTAINLY can tell the major difference in the way it handles. (Or, as they say, "It drives so much better." when talking about an IRS... and they don't even know what is causing it.)

    There should be IRS standard (it's not that great a cost diff, they put it standard in the 90s T-Birds, which sold for a LOT less than a Mustang), with live axle available for the drag racers. The V-6 ESPECIALLY needs IRS, because the buyers will be comparing it to the better handling small cars, and not worrying about performance. They want the ride.
     
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  12. SVTdriver

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    Have you read all the posts complaining about how much it already costs? For that reason alone it is better that they did not include it. Look at all the people who want to wait. Buy it used or get whatever rebate they can on it. They want it cheaper. There is never going to be a perfect mustang for everyone. And saying that adding expensive extras is what should happen. While lots of others are saying it should be less expensive. Means that there are plenty of people who don't want to pay the extra. As discussed oh so many times before. Have it as an option. People can pay for it if they want to. But don't force people to go themore expensive route. When they are already complaining about price.
     
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  13. Scot_94GT

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    Who gives a rip about a 6 speed? yay!! extra overdrive!! better milage!!! if you are that concerned about milage, then you shouldnt be getting a car with a V8.

    I'm not sure what 5spd Ford is putting in the new Mustangs, but is certainly isn't the "glass" T-5, so how can strength be an issue?
     
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  14. Rootus

    Rootus Officially Addicted

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    I'm not positive they can tell the difference. Sure, it's noticable on a current Mustang, but that has more to do with the 25-year old quadra-bind suspension than it does with the live axle.

    Even if it bumps the price up $1000? Other less expensive cars have IRS, true, but most of those are not RWD and the ones that are certainly don't come with a 300 hp engine. It's all about where the money is best spent. I'm willing to bet the new live axle setup will be quite good, and that most people would rather have the money spent elsewhere. I'm all for making it an option, though, for the snobs who have to have it :D. I wouldn't opt for it myself, and I do very little drag racing.

    Dave
     
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  15. 65conv50

    65conv50 New Member

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    V8s are NOT "gas hogs". The V8 design is actually very efficient for the size. (It took years before Detroit got V6s up to the gas mileage of V8s - my kids had Chevy Monzas in high school. The 5.0 V8 got MUCH better mileage - about 6 mpg - than the V6 in identical cars on same roads. My theory is that is didn't have to work so hard.)

    What's wrong with getting better mileage on the highway, exactly the same in the city, and doubling the life of your engine???

    I thought 6 was too many until I owned one. Now when I drive the Z3, I'm always wanting to shift one more time on the highway.

    Yes, in the city there is no difference. So if you NEVER leave town, and you avoid Interstates, then the 5-speed is adequate. I submit most buyers do not fit that definition. Don't knock a 6-speed until you've owned one for several years. It sure changed this old f**t's mind!! :D
     
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  16. 351CJ

    351CJ New Member

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    One thing about StangNet that really frustrates me, is that a number of the participants appear to disregard the facts. A few of get very nasty when you confront them with the facts.

    So at the risk of making more enemies, let's look at some facts:

    Gear Ratios of the Tremec T-3650 5 speed MTX as used in the Mustang GT from Feb 2001 - present (and planned for the 2005 Mustang GT):

    1st:3.38, 2nd: 2.00, 3rd: 1.32, 4th: 1.00, 5th: 0.62


    Gear Ratios of the Tremec T56 6 speed MTX as used in the 2003/04 Mustang Cobra (taken from the SVT web site):

    1st: 2.66, 2nd: 1.78, 3rd: 1.30, 4th: 1.00, 5th: .80, 6th: .63


    Let me see, 5th in the 5 speed is taller @ .62:1 than 6th in the 6 speed @ .63:1.

    Anyone care to tell me how that 6 speed is going to give you better highway gas mileage than the 5 speed? :shrug:
     
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  17. SVTdriver

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    How dare you bring up facts. :D It has to be better cause they use it in the dead camaro.
     
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  18. EastCoast8

    EastCoast8 New Member

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    It doesn't take alot of torque to run a 6 speed, hell the Nissan Spec-V runs a 6 speed and it has 180 lb/ft. I always got the feeling that the 6-speed was for cars with more horsepower/capable of reaching higher top speeds - the 6th gear being tall-ish for conserving gas mileage at low rpms and capable of reaching those higher speeds at full bore - and remember, ok the GT has a tall 5th/final gear, the Cobra has TWO tallish final gears; for example, the top speed of the GT is 138 mph. The top speed of the Cobra is an electronically limited 160 mph, even though its still pulling hard.
     
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  19. BackwardHatClub

    BackwardHatClub New Member

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    And I wonder which one will be faster.

    The 6 speed isn't as upsetting as the IRS though. Whoever pulled this 1000 dollar number out of their butt needs to take a reality check, the cost of an IRS over a live axle is incrementally higher yes, but on a car like the mustang you are talking about 200 dollars more than your live axle set up. The truth is that Ford doesn't want to shake things up, and is using the "too expensive" excuse as a cop out because saying "we let drag racers bully us into using crappy 100 year old technology that should have been put out to pasture 20 years ago" just doesn't sound nearly as good. The car costs 25 thousand bucks people.

    EDIT: after reading this it sounds pretty histrionic, I'm not yelling at anyone, but I think the point is valid
     
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  20. powershift351

    powershift351 New Member

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    My Tremec TKO 2 5 speed is more than fine thank you
     
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