Why Pass 05 and wait for 06??

[SVTdriver]

I guess it depends on what you would consider competition. On the datasheet, probably not many. In the consumers minds, probably a lot more when ride and interior quality rank in higher priority than 200hp and RWD. There are a lot of new cars coming out to target this cheap, yet fun to drive target -- the Cobalt, the Mazda 3, ION redline and Scions ultra-cheap coupe, than you add SRT-4, Mini Cooper, RSX, GTI, Celica, Civic, Eclipse, SE-R, Stratus Coupe, even the Tiburon.

In this mix, there is something for everyone. But, it is the V8 Mustang that is getting the most new (and stiffest) competition that it never had to worry about in the past. This is what is keeping the pricing low and the performance high, while the V6 is keeping profits up.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new Mustang and am saving to buy one. But, I am even more excited that the competition will keep Ford motivated to give us better cars for cheaper.

So are yuo saying you expect the interior to be low quality? That would seem to be what you are saying. And as far as handling is concerned. I'm still waiting for someone to show me factual data on how poorly it handles. But I have a feeling it will be at least a couple more months. And yes there are cars that compete with the gt. But many of them are more expensive. I think it's a great time to be into cars. But mustang has survived on the support of people who want it above most others. That's why when it was threatened with extinction fans wrote in and got ford to rethink the decision.
And your own statements give riseto the best reason for it not having IRS. You want it cheaper. IRS would raise the cost.

 

[Mach460]

So are yuo saying you expect the interior to be low quality? That would seem to be what you are saying. And as far as handling is concerned. I'm still waiting for someone to show me factual data on how poorly it handles. But I have a feeling it will be at least a couple more months. And yes there are cars that compete with the gt. But many of them are more expensive. I think it's a great time to be into cars. But mustang has survived on the support of people who want it above most others. That's why when it was threatened with extinction fans wrote in and got ford to rethink the decision.
And your own statements give riseto the best reason for it not having IRS. You want it cheaper. IRS would raise the cost.

I'll be willing to bet that no matter how good the live axle handles....you're still going to read in the reviews the same thing that have always been the bane of live axle cars-axle wind-up, wheel hop, and vague rear end. True, it will be tuned out as best it can, but there you are still dealing with limitations of a live axle that IRS will eliminate. And it's been proven that the best compromise between handling and ride is made with a fully independent suspension. Anybody can make a solid axle handle great...but you severely sacrifice ride.

Also, as far as cost...nobody knows if the IRS would have added any significant amount to the cost of the car. What we do know was that the cost to Ford was 300 dollars. Plus, in this ultracompetitive market, it's not about cost, but value. People will pay that extra bit of money if they perceive there is value in it.

Best example to see of what can happen to the Mustang if it doesn't look beyond it's core audience is to look at what happened to the Camaro/Firebird.

The Camaro/Firebird had a lot of advantages over the Mustang in terms of horsepower and handling, yet they were similarly priced. Why did it go under..because it wasn't perceived as a good value. It was cramped, impractical and punished your kidneys.

You compare the Mustang to it's current competition in similar performance and cost bracket...and the Mustang looks more and more like Camaro/Firebird.

We'll see. Like you said....I'll wait until the reviews start coming and the comparison tests are run(and not from the Mustangs enthusiast mags...you know that'll be a love fest). I just hope Ford's not assuming that the Mustang is operating in a vacuum.

 

[SVTdriver]

Of course mags like BMW, I mean car and driver. Are going to give it negative reviews. I fully expect that. Since they don't usually give good reviews to anything that isn't german. Unless you count the modified civic they had that was $40k and ran 15 in the 1/4 mile.

And as for the camaro/firebird. Sure it had more hp. But the reality was GM gave up on it. You get a major change every decade with it (Sure the mustang went 14 years on the fox body. But since 93 has had 3 body changes.). You get an acre of dashboard that even my friend who owns one. Says it is not the best of views out the front end. And he's often complains about his transmission keeping him out of gears he wants to shift into ( I don't remember what the reason it does this is). Gm spent nearly nothing on marketing either of them. And I'm not sure the fan base was there to begin with. I mean there's like 4 or 5 mustang magazines out there. Versus how many camaro only magazines?

 

[Rampant]

So are yuo saying you expect the interior to be low quality? That would seem to be what you are saying. And your own statements give riseto the best reason for it not having IRS. You want it cheaper. IRS would raise the cost.

Sorry, that is not what was intended, but don't try and put words in my mouth either. I was only going on past experience since we obviously have not seen the new one on the road, and don't try to tell me the current cars aren't severly lacking. As far as handling/IRS, I said nothing about that (in this thread). All I was trying to say is competition is tough, and it might make Ford come out with some awesome and relatively cheap variants in '06, so it might be best to wait and see.

Now, if the IRS only costs $300 in parts, it sounds like it would make a perfect option/variant. Hmmm... GT = $25k starting, 300hp, live axle; GT-350 = $26.5k starting, 300hp, IRS (double wishbone perhaps ). Ford would clean house IMHO.

But, who knows what they are going to do??? I can't wait to see how this all unfolds. Either way, I still think Ford has a winner on their hands, and the car will get better with each passing year.

 

[SVTdriver]

I was not trying to put words into your mouth. You brought up interior quality did you not? I understand some peolpe may think the current car is lacking. I myself am just fine with my interior. Never have had any issues with it. And yes you did not bring IRS into the discussion. But you did bring cheap. Which cost was part of the reason for going cheap. And the IRS statement was not really directed at your post (sorry if it looked that way. There is another post about liveaxle on this thread).

I agree competition is tough. There are many good cars coming out. But the mustang has survived because of it's fans. And it seems like evry year it gets more fans. Especially with the death of it's closest competition. So while we may lose a few to the other competition. There are a few former GM owners who have been swayed to mustangs. I agree Ford does have a winner. I will be selling both of my cars to buy one. And I am not planning to wait. If they come out with a better variant I will buy that one later. And I truly do hope they come out with a variant soon.

 

[scottie1113]

I know you think bmw--er, car and driver--is biased toward german cars but if you've ever driven one, you'd understand why. The fact is that there are a lot of good cars in the Mustang's price range and all of them have IRS. For a few bucks more for IRS, at least as an option, Ford would have a really world class car. I hope they make it available soon.

I also would like to see a better quality interior although I have no gripes with mine now. I think the 2005 is going to be a huge success and look forward to buyinh one when it improves even more.

 

[SVTdriver]

I know you think bmw--er, car and driver--is biased toward german cars but if you've ever driven one, you'd understand why. The fact is that there are a lot of good cars in the Mustang's price range and all of them have IRS. For a few bucks more for IRS, at least as an option, Ford would have a really world class car. I hope they make it available soon.

I also would like to see a better quality interior although I have no gripes with mine now. I think the 2005 is going to be a huge success and look forward to buyinh one when it improves even more.

I have driven a volkswagon jetta VR6. It handled better in the corners because it was slower. My roommate who owned the car used to frequently ask to trade cars for the day. So he could drive the cobra to work and impress his friends and coworkers. I found the jetta to be underpowered. And I didn't need most of the options it had on it. Like heated seats (Sure it was an amusing option. But not much real use), or the supposedly wonderful monsoon stereo system. Which didn't sound any better than my mach 460. And the thing had enough problems that he almost got it lemoned (Not that this may be usual to all jetta's). He also got crappy service from his dealer.

 

[scottie1113]

Actually I was referring more to BMW and Mercedes than VW. I've got a lot of miles in both--but notice I drive a Mustang--and I think they are much better cars in almost every respect than a Mustang. They should be; they cost a lot more.

The only VW I really like is the GTI, and I'm looking forward to seeing the R32.