Won't start. Flooding. Carb?

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by 66Dog&Pony, Mar 10, 2013.


  1. 66Dog&Pony

    66Dog&Pony Member

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    I am still struggling with my 70 Mustang base, 302, 2V, Motorcraft 2100D.
    Engine tries really hard to start but just won't get going. After trying to crank ventri are wet with fuel, plugs are wet with fuel. This is without pressing accelerator while trying to start.

    Covered/eliminated thus far....
    New plugs, points, condenser, rotor button, rotor cap, coil.
    Carb rebuilt, in fact just bought another kit and replaced power valve and accelerator pump just to be sure. Float is set to spec. Idle screws are at 1.5 turns out, choke is at index. Timing is right.
    I'm stumped! Help!
    Thanks!
    #1
  2. PoppyMod

    PoppyMod Member

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    Hi,
    Where is your initial timing set and how did you get there? Sounds like it's just sputtering?
    You might pull all of the plugs and dry them. Replace and make sure you are getting a good healthy spark at the plug wire end. Assuming your choke is closed, have a helper, ever so slightly advance the distributor a tiny bit, while your cranking the engine. Also, am assuming you haven't R&R'd the distributor?
    Report your results.
    #2
  3. Jake2012

    Jake2012 Member

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    Hi there, seems like you have followed All the correct fault resolution for non starting. Assuming you have spark at the plug end of the lead, the non firing may be caused by an incorrect firing order? Have you checked the firing order is correct?
    #3
  4. Mr67Stang

    Mr67Stang Active Member

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    Allow the excess fuel to evaporate. Verify firing order as already sudjested. Place a mark on the base of the distributor directly inline with the plug wire going to Cyl #1. Then remove the cap. Rotate your engine by hand untill your timing marker lines up with 10 degrees BTC. Then adjust your distributor untill the rotor is pointed directly at that mark you made on the distributor. This should get your timing close enough to start the engine. Reinstal the Cap. Next, you need to verify you have spark. There are a few ways to do this but the dead certain way is to remove a spark plug and hold it's threads to a good ground (use insulated plyers or you may end up being a little shocked at what happens) have someone crank the car for you while you look for a blue spark between the gap. If you are good so far. Then here is the part some will disagree with me on. Disable your choke (I never use them) Wire the choke flap wide open. Verify visually that your accelerator pump is squirting by operating the throttle by hand and looking down the carburetor. You should see it squirt a stream of fuel into both venturies. If all is good now, there should be nothing to keep this engine from running short of a flat cam or a broken crank.
    #4
  5. Iamdiffrnt

    Iamdiffrnt Member

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    Also, you never mentioned what fuel pump you are running. If it's electric make sure you are only running around 3-5 psi, too much pressure and you will blow past the needle valve.

    One more thing... Let everyone know if you solved your issue. Otherwise this thread will keep on going.
    #5
  6. mllud

    mllud Member

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    I would also be suspicious of the electeic fuel pump. It sounds like you have went through all the normal trouble shooting process. Compare the rotor and distriburor cap to the old. Make sure the rotor bug matches the cap. Make sure you put the coil wires on the right terminal.+and-
    I once bought a new set of spark plugs that were bad. Double check timing and firing order.
    Pull the plugs and crank the engine a little with the coil wire off for safety. See if there is excessive fuel blowing out of the plug holes.
    Mr67stang sugested wiring the choke open. He lives in NC and you live in SC you may get by with that in those states but not in colder climates. If the choke has been working right leave it alone.
    check engine compression. Has something happen that could have bent push rods. If it sat for a while somtimes the valves will stick ,then when you crank the engine the push rods will bend.
    Mike
    #6
  7. Mr67Stang

    Mr67Stang Active Member

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    I actually started disabling my chokes when I lived in Wa state after one stuck on me. I knew I would have to start the car 3 times and play with the throttle for about 10 minutes before I went anywhere. Not a big deal to me but I know others that want to be able to jump in fire up and leave.
    #7
  8. mllud

    mllud Member

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    Ya old chokes are a pain in the ------------. I have wired a few myself.:shrug:
    On his mustang if the choke isnt working he could convert it to manual choke.It takes a couple adjustments to get the right tension on the spring. Old carberators are primitive in comparison to fuel injection. But I do like to put my foot in a 4 barrel and hear it howl.
    #8
  9. 66Dog&Pony

    66Dog&Pony Member

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    Everyone, Thanks for all of the input/ideas. I am pretty much weekend warrior with this project so I will post updates by Sunday evening. Also, just to make things more puzzling, I did have a chance to start spark checking each of the plug wires. Pulled the wire from #6 hooked it to the spark checker and the engine started! WTF? It quickly stalled and wouldn't start again but nevertheless...
    #9
  10. woodsnake

    woodsnake Active Member

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    Maybe time to perform the "wiggle test"...Look for anything that might be grounding out in/on/near the distributor..
    #10
  11. 66Dog&Pony

    66Dog&Pony Member

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    Thanks again guys. I have tried all of your suggestions other than the timing adjustments. I am waiting for my helper to come by. Nevertheless, I am getting spark at coil and all plug wires. I have wired open choke. I have tried the wiggle test. Fuel pump is the mechanical variety so I don't think the fuel psi is an issue. Yet, I am still getting way too much fuel into the carb. Engine has actually started a couple of time just to immediately stall out. Carb venturi are wet with fuel without the accelerator being touched. I don't know how far back you may have read on this issue but two weeks ago the vehicle ran like a champ until the crap that I was unaware was in the fuel tank was stirred up and reached the carb. I guess I am puzzled as to what happened between then and now. Will the timing being slightly off cause the excessive fuel in the carb?

    Thanks!
    #11
  12. Iamdiffrnt

    Iamdiffrnt Member

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    Probably just have dirt in the float valve. Clean the valve again, and look for debris in the fuel bowl. Maybe try to flush the fuel line (run a hose from the line feeding the carb to a container, disconnect the ignition coil + lead and make sure it can't spark, and crank the engine over a few times). Hope this helps.
    #12
  13. 66Dog&Pony

    66Dog&Pony Member

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    Thanks, fuel tank was replaced earlier in project. Lines, pump flushed, carb rebuilt. Fuel in bowl is crystal clear. Just getting too much of it.
    Just spark checked all plugs, all good. Tried manually turning distributor, no help.
    Anyone interested in buying a possessed Mustang?
    #13
  14. Iamdiffrnt

    Iamdiffrnt Member

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    The only thing I can think of is the float & valve. Are you sure it's clean, not stuck open, and nothing got bent?
    #14
  15. mllud

    mllud Member

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    Pull the valve covers and check for bent push rods due to sticky valves. This is a common problem with old fords. Especially if they have sat for a while. A compression check will also let you know if you have bent push rods.
    Mike
    #15
  16. 66Dog&Pony

    66Dog&Pony Member

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    Update. Set carb float well below spec, wired choke open, engine started with starter fluid, ran ok so long as I was pressing accelerator a bit. Without that it stalled out.
    #16
  17. mllud

    mllud Member

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    It sounds like your on the right track. You may have went to far. Bring it back up in very small adjustments. If you get someone setting in it keeping it running, loosen the locking nut on the adjustment and slowly back out the screw until the idle picks up. then lock down the nut. Move small amount and wait a couple of seconds between adjustments to give the bowl a chance to change level.
    Mike
    #17
  18. 66Dog&Pony

    66Dog&Pony Member

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    Another update. Still have choke wired open, closed slightly from full open. Car will start, slightly difficult, but will start. Purrs like a kitten for 3 to 4 minutes and then just dies.
    #18
  19. 66Dog&Pony

    66Dog&Pony Member

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    Mike I assume you were speaking of the choke in the adjustments you mention above?
    #19
  20. mllud

    mllud Member

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    No I was talking about the float fuel level. I would raise it a little at a time. You can do while running.dont take the side plug out. Since you have to slightly hold the accellerator it sounds like you lowered the float fuel level to far. It takes a feew seconds for it ti stabilize. go slow. pay attention to how much you move it do you can go back.
    #20

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