Yet another header quesiton

[mhanksii]

I am getting started on my 05 GT and need some advice. I have been reading the forum posts have yet to see anyone with a pre header dyno sheet and post header dyno post. Are shorties worth anything? Are long tubes worth high price they are fetching? Where do the JBA cat4wards fit in, are they shorties and if they are do they really get the 20+hp they are claiming?

 

[mhanksii]

anyone?

 

[red05bullitgt]

I am getting started on my 05 GT and need some advice. I have been reading the forum posts have yet to see anyone with a pre header dyno sheet and post header dyno post. Are shorties worth anything? Are long tubes worth high price they are fetching? Where do the JBA cat4wards fit in, are they shorties and if they are do they really get the 20+hp they are claiming?

The JBA cat4wards are equal length shorty headers..Although their still considered as shorties, the difference between equal length and regular shorties is, the tubes on equal length shorty headers, are all the same length.. Where on the other hand, un-equal or regular shorties, the tubes are not the same length.. On our 05-06 Mustangs, the stock manifolds are much less restrictive, and flow much better compared to the now outdated SN-95 Mustang.. Therefore, there is very little to be gained, with regular shorty headers, other than maybe a louder sound..As for the 20+HP claim about the cat4wards are concerned ? I honestly cannot provide an answer for you, one way or the other..But I can tell you this..if you're looking for an alternative, to long tube headers and the high price, then the JBA cat4wards, are the way to go...However, if you're looking for the most HP. gains, then long tube headers, are you're best bet..If you check out www.brenspeed.com He actually has pretty decent prices on long tube headers, so I would also recommend that you check out his website.. And here's another vendor, you can also check out..Here's the link..http://www.discountpowerparts.com/Online_Store/SCT_TUNERS/SCT_Performance_Tuners.html Anyway, Good Luck

 

[PDXStangDude]

One of the reason's I feel like going with the shorties is the O2 sensor. Or am I wrong? My understanding is if I go with LT's I will get the O2 sensor light to come on. Easily fixed with the O2 sensor plugs but I have to worry about DEQ here in Portland and I don't want to here any crap from them.

 

[red05bullitgt]

One of the reason's I feel like going with the shorties is the O2 sensor. Or am I wrong? My understanding is if I go with LT's I will get the O2 sensor light to come on. Easily fixed with the O2 sensor plugs but I have to worry about DEQ here in Portland and I don't want to here any crap from them.

I believe that you can somehow, turn off the 02 sensor with you're X-CAL II tuner, or also use the 02 sensor plugs..And here's another option, you should look into..Contact you're Dept. of Motor Vehicles, and find out, if they have an emissions exemption law..How it works in my state is.. if you put 4000 miles or less, per year on you're vehicle..You're only required to pass you're state's safety inspection test, which has nothing to do with you're headers or sensor plugs, so if you're concerned about DEQ giving you a hard time, you should look into it..Anyhow, hope everything works out for you..

 

[drmustang]

From what I've seen the shorties will not get the 20HP you are looking for. The consensus is to go for the LT's. I'd like to find some LT's that have an X mid pipe that can be run with cats for emissions test and then removed and a piece to replace them to go catless.

 

[red05bullitgt]

The shorties you're referring to, that will not get you 20+ HP. Are regular, un-equal length shorties. The JBA cat4wards, are equal length shorties..And there is a difference, between the 2.. Although, I canno't confirm JBA's claim about the 20+HP. gain.. However, it's safe to assume, that you'll see more of a HP. gain with an equal length shorty, than with a regular, un-equal length shorty, but on the other hand.. I did mention previously, that if you're looking for the most HP. gain, then long tube's, are you're best bet..

 

[anthony05gt]

Any hp claims are way over-rated by the header producers. Those hp claims are for engines that actually need more flow like a higher boost blower car. Stick with longtubes only for the best overall performance. They cost more, but you only have to buy them once.

I installed longtubes and use all four 02 sensors and have never had a code with 490 rwhp. Don't waste your money on shorties unless you just want the sound without much in hp gains.

 

[red05bullitgt]

Any hp claims are way over-rated by the header producers. Those hp claims are for engines that actually need more flow like a higher boost blower car. Stick with longtubes only for the best overall performance. They cost more, but you only have to buy them once.

I installed longtubes and use all four 02 sensors and have never had a code with 490 rwhp. Don't waste your money on shorties unless you just want the sound without much in hp gains.

In you're honest opinion, as far as HP. gains, are concerned..? Would equal length shorties, also be considered as a waste of money ?? And BTW, when you mentioned that any Hp claims, are way over-rated by the header manufacturers...Are you also including JBA ??? I just happen to notice, that you're long tube headers, are JBA's.. Just a thought..

 

[jwgroovin]

In you're honest opinion, as far as HP. gains, are concerned..? Would equal length shorties, also be considered as a waste of money ?? And BTW, when you mentioned that any Hp claims, are way over-rated by the header manufacturers...Are you also including JBA ??? I just happen to notice, that you're long tube headers, are JBA's.. Just a thought..

Just a note: the November issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Forwards tested a good number of shorties, and found at best a 5hp gain. The manufacturers disputed this test pretty quickly, but no one to date has been able to demonstrate anything beyond that.

I have BBK shorties, and they sound pretty good on my '05 and son's '86 Mustang GT. He clearly gets more out of them performance wise, and while my seat of the pants says "yup" in 2nd and 3rd gear, I really won't know until I get it dynoed next month.

For now, I think they're just a sound thing...

John

 

[red05bullitgt]

Just a note: the November issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Forwards tested a good number of shorties, and found at best a 5hp gain. The manufacturers disputed this test pretty quickly, but no one to date has been able to demonstrate anything beyond that.

I have BBK shorties, and they sound pretty good on my '05 and son's '86 Mustang GT. He clearly gets more out of them performance wise, and while my seat of the pants says "yup" in 2nd and 3rd gear, I really won't know until I get it dynoed next month.

For now, I think they're just a sound thing...

John

Are you're BBK shorties, equal length shorties ? or regular, un-equal length ? I know that un-equal or regular shorties are only good for about 5Hp. But my question and concern is, how good are equal length shorties ?..In other words, what's the most HP. gain, you can expect to see with equal length shorties ? and how much of a difference, is there between the 2 different types ?

 

[Pro Mod]

In you're honest opinion, as far as HP. gains, are concerned..? Would equal length shorties, also be considered as a waste of money ?? And BTW, when you mentioned that any Hp claims, are way over-rated by the header manufacturers...Are you also including JBA ??? I just happen to notice, that you're long tube headers, are JBA's.. Just a thought..

My longtubes are JBA, and I'll tell you that they are all overrated by the manufacturers... JBA included. Don't get me wrong, the longtubes help alot and although the peak #'s are a bit overhyped, people overlook the power under the curve and torque. Longtubes have this misconception of killing bottom end power and torque; but my car made 317 rwtq with the longtubes, cai, pulleys, and canned SCT tune.
Don't waste your money with shorties, whether they be equal or unequal length. The stock manifolds just flow so good as they are; you need something drastic like longtubes to see any gain.

Now, if you are in an emissions bind, that is a different story.

 

[jwgroovin]

Are you're BBK shorties, equal length shorties ? or regular, un-equal length ? I know that un-equal or regular shorties are only good for about 5Hp. But my question and concern is, how good are equal length shorties ?..In other words, what's the most HP. gain, you can expect to see with equal length shorties ? and how much of a difference, is there between the 2 different types ?

According to the article, negligable between the two types (3-5hp max gain). With shorties, and aftermarket midpipe+axleback, total gains maxed at 14rwhp...

John

 

[anthony05gt]

In you're honest opinion, as far as HP. gains, are concerned..? Would equal length shorties, also be considered as a waste of money ?? And BTW, when you mentioned that any Hp claims, are way over-rated by the header manufacturers...Are you also including JBA ??? I just happen to notice, that you're long tube headers, are JBA's.. Just a thought..

Shorties just don't give you that much power gain. My long tube JBA's are overated on n/a engines, but with 11 lbs. boost, I'm sure my gains are closer to the claimed hp increase, but only because my engine actually needs the added flow. The simple fact is, if you want headers, you should go with long tubes and a catted h-pipe or x-pipe from the same supplier. It will cost more, but you'll get the best results.

 

[bigcat]

the size of the headers will make a difference also. a 1 5/8" header will be better for N/A engines than a 1 7/8" header.

 

[red05bullitgt]

Thanks for all you're input guys...I knew all along, about the stock manifolds flowing so well, just as they are..I just wasn't sure, if there was much of a difference between equal length shorties, and un-equal length..But thanks to all you're advice and opinions, that you provided..There appears to be no doubt, that you do need something drastic, like longtubes, in order to see any real gains.. Otherwise, it's like you said..You're just wasting you're money..So once again, thanks for all you're support.

 

[PDXStangDude]

great info guys!!

Thanks

 

[mhanksii]

Weight?

Just one more thing to add to the conversation about shorties, while it may not be much I have to believe that they will save you some weight off the front end of our cars. Does anyone know have any idea about how much weight you save by taking off the cast manifolds?

Also I was looking at the tubular K-members and started to wounder, is that really a good idea to take weight off the bottom of your car? Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't that make it more top heavy and in turn make it corner worse? Just a thought and I hope I'm wrong because I do want to put my pony on a diet. Thanks for your help guys.:SNSign:

 

[bigcat]

you would not see the difference IMO...

 

[N5720W]

For what it's worth, I have the JBA long tubes and O/R H-pipe. Those, combined with a cold air intake, pulleys, and a 91 tune gained me 47hp and 47ft lbs of torque over stock. I have no figures for the headers alone however.