Alright I have been very pleased with maaco for awhile now. I had my 66 painted a few months ago and it came out awsome. And I did A LOT of body work on that car and it still came out great. Well I have this other 66 that I brought by monday and I just went to go look at it to pick it up and from far away it looks pretty good but up close it looks like ****. He said since there was laquer paint under it from before it made those weird spots. But those spots werent that bad and it wasnt that big of a deal compared to the rest of the car. I did a fair amount of body work on this car but all within the bondo limits of 1/8". Almost all of the areas where I did small amounts of bondo cracked. and its very noticible cracks. I did some minor bondo/putty work and it looks like they totally sanded out the bondo and so there are very big chips in the paint where I repaired. It also looks like they did a ****ty job at prepping because I can see scratch/sand marks under the paint. I am ****ing pissed. Maaco isnt open on the weekends so Ill have to talk to them monday. He offered to strip the paint to get rid of the laquer spots for $650 but thats not even a big deal. I only saw like 2 laquer spots and about 10+ cracks/chips and shiity prepping. **** maaco
**** maaco!!!!!!!
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2nd Mustang
Founding Member
I haven't used Bondo in many years, but I remember sanding and filling many times over in the same spot until it was right, then using a glazing filler to really smooth it out. Then I rattle canned it with gloss black to see if there were any imperfect panels. I then sanded that down and primered it with red oxide to stop rust and called it good. No, this wasn't my Mustang, but an offroad bug. It took a good beating and that Bondo/glaze never fell off!
Could someone find me some good info or proof that the prep work caused the cracking and not my bondo work? It is the prep work that caused the cracks right? Or is it my bondo work? If I could get some good reasons as to why there are such large cracks in the paint I might be able to convince them to reshoot it. or at least get something out of them. I wish I had my camera with me to take some pics. I thought bondo only cracked over time?
To summarize the paint job there are basically very noticible cracks in the paint where I had done the body work. There are cracks on almost all the areas where I did the work too not just one area. So I am assuming it is the prep work.
So does anyoen have any proof or evidence that this is prep work?
I know I cant expect a perfect paint job but when I pay for prep work I expect there to be no cracks and **** coming through the paint.
To summarize the paint job there are basically very noticible cracks in the paint where I had done the body work. There are cracks on almost all the areas where I did the work too not just one area. So I am assuming it is the prep work.
So does anyoen have any proof or evidence that this is prep work?
I know I cant expect a perfect paint job but when I pay for prep work I expect there to be no cracks and **** coming through the paint.
geostang351
Member
From what I remember working with bondo is if you add too much hardner when mixing the paste and hardner together, it is more suseptible (sp?) to cracking. I think this is the cause and not the paint sprayer (M**co).
zookeeper
Founding Member
Ditto on the too much hardener. As far as the "lacquer spots" a paint job is ony as good as what's underneath. Try to spray paint over a bad surface and you wind up with a bad paint job.
I am afraid you are out of luck - MAACO is an economy paint and body shop --- when you pay $500 (or anything less than $1500) for a paint job that is what you get - they will simply scuff, feather large chips if you are lucky, degrease, tape, mix & shoot paint, remove masking, do a basic clean and deliver the car. They will not use anything rougher than 400 grit usually. Sanding scatches like you are describing indicate that the bodywork underneath was completed to no finer than 220 grit - prep work is on the person who did the body work. The average body shop I have encountered will charge $3500 - $4500 for a decent paint job which includes some "ding" repair, chip repair, etc.. but NO BODY WORK or rust repair whatsoever - just basic removal and installation of SOME trimwork for that price. When I paint a car I do not topcoat until I have gone over the WHOLE car with compatable primer and long board, re-prime, longboard again, then re-prime, block, fill small imperfections in between each prime, and finally wet sand the last coat of primer down to 800 grit. After the paint has cured I will hand wet sand the car with 800grit, 1000grit, 1500grit and then 2000grit and finally 3 different grits of rubbing and polishing compounds. That is a tremendous amount of work and cost of materials for JUST $500. I have painted many cars in the past and 90% of the quality of a final paint job occurs before the paint goes on. I cannot paint my own car at my own house for $500 due to cost of materials - tape, masking, sanding paper, hardener, thinner, pigmant, solvents, etc.... all add up very quick. I know I am not the best body and paint person and will NEVER be but this is what it takes to get a decent looking job. I have been in the auto body repair and insurance industry for 13 years and have been doing my own body and paint work for well over 20 years on a hobbist level. What you are describing sounds like a incompatablility with materials. NO body shop will guarantee an individual's prior body or prep work and if you read the paperwork you recieved from the shop it say that usually. Lots of rattle can paint is high in solvent content that takes months to fully evaporate out and if it is painted on top of with an incompatable paint it will surely have a solvent pop problem. Also that thin red cream backyard bodymen use to fill in minor pin holes is nothing but a problem waiting to happen. It will do EXACTLY as you describe once paint is on top of it and it often falls out in very short order. Bondo is not a bad word - if mixed, prepped, and used properly it can work wonders. Almost all NEW cars have BONDO in them when brand new on the lot. 30% of all BRAND NEW cars have also been damaged in some way prior to being sold as new and most are repaired with bondo and you never know it even 15 or more years later. It is very important to use a complete system of prep, prime, topcoat chemicals so they will not produce an unwanted chemical reaction later. If you do not use the same brand for every step WATCH OUT! unless you know what you are doing you should not mix up different brands and types of that stuff. I do not want to discourage you - I know about working with a budget (every one of my cars has a budget) and you CAN have a great looking final product for not a lot of money IF you take your time, use the right products, read the labels and understand what is going to happen. It is helpful to talk to the final paint shop to find out what brand and type products they use in their "system" and then you can use the same compatable products during your end of the job. Always use a long board, sanding block, AUTOMOTIVE primer (keeping in mind what topcoat will be - enamel, epoxy, etc... so it does not solvent pop), give plenty of evaporation time - at least a month - and never take a car to paint without checking your work with sanded off guide coats and finish prepping to about 600 grit to avoid sand marks. Also - Never use products containing silicone such as rubber dressings etc... as they will soak in to paint an NOTHING will stick once that happens. Once the car is painted you WILL get chips. Do not let this ruin your day - chips can be taken care of with touch up paint or an airbrush. This also applies to your problem areas you have now. You can sand out the damaged area, clean and prep, apply filler as needed, apply paint with a "melting agent" after proper prep work to only the immediate damaged area and then mask around it and wet sand it down after the touched up area has cured for several days. Concentrate on the touched up area by gently sanding it down with 800grit, 1000grit, 1500,grit and then 2000grit - you can even get 3000grit to burn the edges of the touched up area into the surrounding paint before final compounding, polishing and buffing. This can be done to both single stage and base/clear paint. (You can tell base/clear or single stage with several methods if you don't know what your car was painted with - rub it with some fine sand paper and if it comes off white it is base/clear and if it comes off body color it is single stage. If your car is light blue, white, light yellow or some other light color that it is not possible to tell if it is coming off white or not simply rub the smooth portion of an aluminum pop top can tab on the paint after wiping it clean and dry - if it leaves a light pencil lead type mark it is single stage and if it does not then it is base/clear (unless there is a good coat of wax) Good luck with your project.
geostang351
Member
WOAH!!! I wish you used a few new paragrapghs so I wouldn't have read the same line 5 times.
Good advise. I love learning this new stuff about paint and buffing.
Good advise. I love learning this new stuff about paint and buffing.
Plastic filler (good quality) is not a problem when it is applied correctly (bare metal, mixed correctly and not too thick). I have used plastic filler for many years and have never had a problem. All paint jobs are only as good as the prep work. Certainly MAACO is going to put the blame on your prep work. As already stated, shooting over properly prepared lacquer shouldn't have been a problem. If lyou apply lacquer to many other types of paint, it can lift the paint )looks just like you put paint remover on it). One key thing any body shop should do is apply a sealer coat which will prevent a lot of lthese problems. Also if you are using a two-part primer (uses a harder/converter) should eliminate many problems with substrates. The fact that sand scratches are showing, they did not use a sealer coat. As far as cost go, we currently have a 65 mustang in a shop. The cost is approximately $9K , shich includes some rust repair and a quarter panel replacement. Good paint today, including all prep materials can run about $2K for a vehicle, especially 2-stage. I picked up a quart of base color the other day and it ran $75 without the basemaker. You can get pretty good results using 1-Day, MAACO, etc. if you can do all the prep work and priming yourself, as stated iln other posts, they do only the most miniminal of preparation.
thanks for the info!
ill ask them what they used monday. It looks like they didnt even sand it at all. The last grit I used on the repair areas was 180 grit and then primed. I also used regual rattle can primer from kragens to protect it but they said they would sand that off an use better primer. I also still dont understand why there were cracks in the paint. I had another 66 painted a few months ago and I had around 1/2" of bondo on one part and there were no cracks or pinholes or anything. They paint guy didnt even know how much work was done. I doubt it was that I used too much hardener. Do you think it was because they didnt put a sealer on before they painted and thats why the laquer is showing and there are cracks in the paint?
ill ask them what they used monday. It looks like they didnt even sand it at all. The last grit I used on the repair areas was 180 grit and then primed. I also used regual rattle can primer from kragens to protect it but they said they would sand that off an use better primer. I also still dont understand why there were cracks in the paint. I had another 66 painted a few months ago and I had around 1/2" of bondo on one part and there were no cracks or pinholes or anything. They paint guy didnt even know how much work was done. I doubt it was that I used too much hardener. Do you think it was because they didnt put a sealer on before they painted and thats why the laquer is showing and there are cracks in the paint?
Take it to another Macoo and say Earl shive painted it and see what they say. May cost you 50 bucks for an estimate or written statement. I bet the painter fd up. I have recieved good macco paintings before, but my last one took them 3 shoots to fix their F ups, and I paid them for the little body Work needed.
geostang351
Member
Cannoball888
New Member
So I went by there today. Asked him a few questions. I asked him why the cracks were showing and he said they were bondo cracks and then asked him why they were showing on places where I didnt do any body work and he said it is probably because of old bondo under the old paint. I also asked him about the cracks and he didnt know why or where they came from and that they would never intentionally do that. So I asked him why he didnt fix them when I paid extra for them to be fixed and he couldnt really give me a good enough answer. He said they did the best they could do but I told him it looks as if there are more chips than how I brought it to him. He said the was 100% sure there would be less chips then before.
There were also more what he called "laquer checking" but I am positive it is not. There are some areas where there is laquer checking but most areas is just what looks like a heavy sealer coat like they said they did. It just did not come out smooth. He also said they only put sealer coat on and no primer. He said the sealer is pretty much a primer but it jsut comes out smoother.
He offered to strip jsut the tops of the car for $600 plus any extra bondo repair work that they find. I just told them to shoot under the hood (which they didnt because they ran out of paint) and Ill take it.
There were also more what he called "laquer checking" but I am positive it is not. There are some areas where there is laquer checking but most areas is just what looks like a heavy sealer coat like they said they did. It just did not come out smooth. He also said they only put sealer coat on and no primer. He said the sealer is pretty much a primer but it jsut comes out smoother.
He offered to strip jsut the tops of the car for $600 plus any extra bondo repair work that they find. I just told them to shoot under the hood (which they didnt because they ran out of paint) and Ill take it.
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
If you're lucky they will do that much. I had my '65 notch painted at a local Maaco and it took them a month to fill a handful of dings and pant the car solid white. I got pissed off from waiting and their excuses and picked up the car before having Le Mans stripes put on. I then found out that they hit the side windows with a power sander!
It was my fault for taking it to them, but it was their fault for telling me it was not a problem to do any of that! As it was, I ended up with dirt in the paint and some of the paint came off when the second shop removed the Le Mans stripe masking. That experience made me realize that shooting paint myself, even if I have to buy a $500+ Binks gun, is worth the trouble of get something good. I'm going to shoot the '68 myself.....both colors.I hope the owners of the Maaco on Sierra Highway and Avenue P in Palmdale, CA burn in Hell!
