How To Get 500+ HP Out Of 4.6?

[Rickey_Bobby]

It was hardly worth installing a vortech strim? I picked a 120rwhp from the base kit. It has 42k on it now has never leaked and runs like a champ. The strim for the 4.6l is a straight discharge.

With that said I think Procharger makes a great Sc, I'm just not impressed with the P1SC. I would love a F1 from Procharger. Here again is a link to a 620+ rwhp 2v without nitrous running a strim. If I was to upgrade to a bigger centrifuge SC it would be the Novi 2000.

http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18244&highlight=vortech




Vortech S-trm is over 70% efficient with the straight discharge, and thats what the 4.6 uses . All Sc installs need a custom chip to run their best. On my mail order tune mine also felt sluggish but after the tune it was a different car.

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/products/units/

Yes, this is what vortech tells everyone. Thats Why I bought one. In real life it is 55-60% I have tested this directly as the compressor on my t-70 is IDENTICAL in flow capacity and design, and at 6K rpm (where the s/c was making 10#'s of boost) ... the turbo (also @ 10#'s) Still made made more power (68.3hp at the rear) when the flow charts of the turbo and supercharger indicate that they should be pushing the exact same CFM of air. Thats 100HP at the crank.

So using my dyno #'s as a base... assume 15% drive train loss All #'s at 6,000RPM
Turbo @ 10 psi/air inlet temp 122*F = 468RWHP (est. 538.2hp at crank)
V-2 s/c @ 10 psi/air inlet temp 98*F = 396RWHP (est. 455.4hp at crank)
Thats 82.8hp differance. OR 15.38% LESS power.
The T-70 has a MAXIMUM efficiency of 75%
75%-15.38% = 59.62%

Therefor, a V-2 SQ is about 60% efficient in the real world.

*All tests done on a stock 99 4.6L w/ PI heads. Car's fuel, ignition, suspension, and drivetrain were identical for both tests. Note the s/c dyno run was done on a day where the temp was 60*F while the turbo run was done this past summer at 85*F

-Steve

 

[04YELLOWGT]

Heres proof LaserRed01GT that prochargers leak.

http://www.brenspeed.com/carnage/index.html

Third one down.

 

[Chris00GT]

Show me proof of one single self contained Pro Charger head unit that has had a real oil leak. And don't waste my time posting a link to a thread or saying that "you heard from a couple of guys." Show me proof. I would also like to see this F-1 unit that you claim was destroyed on the dyno. 99% percent of the time that a new compressor fails on the dyno of all places, it installed incorrectly or severely overdriven. What size pulley did it have? What size crank pulley? Was it a COG drive?

In the 9 years that I have been in the race car business, I have installed my share of superchargers. I have not ever had one single SC Pro Charger leak on me....not one. And as you know, being in the "business" you know lot's people. And all the competent shops that I know and regularly talk to (which is a bunch) have also never had one single SC Pro Charger leak.

These little rumors get started for two major reasons. First of all what most people do not realize is that the compressor housing seal is a "wet" seal much like a rear main seal. It will be extrenally wet to the touch just like a rear main seal. That is the way they purposely designed. A lot of people and techs will touch the head unit or set it down on a shop towel and see a little oil and just blindly assume that it is leaking.

Then I have even seen some so called techs set the head unit on their bench upside down and when they flip it over to go and install it, of course it is going to leak. Any self contained supercharger will, Paxton, Kenne Bell, Pro Charger.

I'm not sure what shops you deal with, but most of any of the major dyno shops that deal with Procharges refer to the P1-SC as a "leak 1-SC" I don't have to post links, like I said I work at a Mustang perfomance shop and I've seen it first had many times. Do a search and you'll see people complainig about sending them back to only leak oil a few thousand miles later. Hmm I guess all those hours I spent on the phone on hold with procharger to get RMA#'s to send all those blowers back to fix seal leaks were a waste of time. Larroca's was at one point Procharger's top shop. I guess when then they came out with a breather setup to help keep the seals from blowing out was just a sales gimic. Installing blowers and selling parts is one thing...see'ing them and working on them on a daily basis with miles on them you get to know the strong points and weak points of a blower. We've had to install rebuilt motors on a few Mustangs due to the oil leaking internally and the oil coating the mass air meters. Heck the intercooler on my car came off a customers car who blower failed and was so fed up with procharger he wanted nothing to do with them. It took me almost a day to clean all the aluminum and green oil out of intercooler so I could put it on my car. Here's a link to the shop I worked at www.kauffmanmotorsports.com Do some searching online and on the fourms. We've tuned alot of car's that are on this fourmn including jivepepers car. I'm not on here trying to BS or post info that I've read or heard online, just first had experance I work on Mustangs durring the week and race my Mustang on the weekend. This years NMRA Renegade champ was sponcered by us along with the 4th place car, both runing vortech YSI blowers.

 

[blubullett]

1

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Yes, this is what vortech tells everyone. Thats Why I bought one. In real life it is 55-60% I have tested this directly as the compressor on my t-70 is IDENTICAL in flow capacity and design, and at 6K rpm (where the s/c was making 10#'s of boost) ... the turbo (also @ 10#'s) Still made made more power (68.3hp at the rear) when the flow charts of the turbo and supercharger indicate that they should be pushing the exact same CFM of air. Thats 100HP at the crank.

So using my dyno #'s as a base... assume 15% drive train loss All #'s at 6,000RPM
Turbo @ 10 psi/air inlet temp 122*F = 468RWHP (est. 538.2hp at crank)
V-2 s/c @ 10 psi/air inlet temp 98*F = 396RWHP (est. 455.4hp at crank)
Thats 82.8hp differance. OR 15.38% LESS power.
The T-70 has a MAXIMUM efficiency of 75%
75%-15.38% = 59.62%

Therefor, a V-2 SQ is about 60% efficient in the real world.

*All tests done on a stock 99 4.6L w/ PI heads. Car's fuel, ignition, suspension, and drivetrain were identical for both tests. Note the s/c dyno run was done on a day where the temp was 60*F while the turbo run was done this past summer at 85*F

-Steve

Good post and good thinking. This is what I like to see, people using their head, crunching numbers and making a post based on real world info.

You and I know the real story to the efficiency of Vortech, but as you can see it is near impossible to convince the others of this reality.

Oh well, the show goes on.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Still nobody with any REAL proof of a Pro Charger leaking? BTW, a picture of a guy pointing to a Pro Charger head uint ain't gonna cut it.

We were visited this morning by a few reps, one of which was a woman (and good friend) who works with a company that does independent claims consulting for a few of the "big" supercharger manufacturers. We were talking business and she showed us stats that showed that 99% percent of all claims by people and shops that send in a ATI blower for failure were all found to be the fault of the installer....that doesn't surprise me at all. She said you wouldn't believe some of the stories that shops would come up with trying to cover up their mistakes trying to scam ProCharger for a blower that they blew up. I told her I was also having a discussion on a internet discussion board about this myth of ATI blowers having a leaking problem......she laughed.

 

[Rickey_Bobby]

My best guess on the whole leak thing is this...
if one were to take apart both a vortech and procharger, one would notice that due to the design of the case and the relative mating points on the case, that the procharger would be far more prone to minor damage/misalignment of the cases if it were to be dropped even the slightest bit.

Now think back to what your box looked like that the s/c came in....
How many times did UPS knock that sucker around?

 

[Rickey_Bobby]

Good post and good thinking. This is what I like to see, people using their head, crunching numbers and making a post based on real world info.

You and I know the real story to the efficiency of Vortech, but as you can see it is near impossible to convince the others of this reality.

Oh well, the show goes on.

Thanks. I know my over thinking of everything would come in handy one day.

...Now I still gotta convince ppl that building a shortblock isn't brain surgery and doesn't cost $3,500 and that 5.4L swaps should be more common.

 

[ADRENLN]

whatever, i better make 500rwhp this summer!!!!!!!

 

[01Steeda]

Tim @ MPH has assured me that wiht my setup on 14psi I should be in the 500rwhp range. I have his cams and ported heads though.

 

[01saleenkid144]

Hey guys. I have a P1SC-2. My car made 427rwhp/425rwtq on stock block and heads. Ive never had a problem with the head unit leaking. Im very happy with my setup. When looking into superchargers, I was taken for a ride in a car with a P1SC. This car was making 376rwhp. Both cars had the same stup at the time, so you can see that the P1SC-2 made a good amount more hp. Right now the car I went for a ride in is making 496rwhp on the same P1SC with a built motor, stock heads, and intake manifold. I plan on building my motor in the next 2 or 3 months including the head work, meth injection, and p51 intake manifold. Im hoping this stup will get me close to 600rwhp, but will be happy with anything over 550. Im not trying to say that procharger is the the only way to go or anything, just that Im happy with my setup.

 

[hotmustang331]

Wheres Tim? He tunes the cars, P1-Scs just wont keep up with the S trim in an all out power contest. Probably due to the mentioned impeller design.

NM ricky, I re read your post and understand what your saying now.

 

[jivepepper]

Hey guys. I have a P1SC-2. My car made 427rwhp/425rwtq on stock block and heads. Ive never had a problem with the head unit leaking. Im very happy with my setup. When looking into superchargers, I was taken for a ride in a car with a P1SC. This car was making 376rwhp. Both cars had the same stup at the time, so you can see that the P1SC-2 made a good amount more hp. Right now the car I went for a ride in is making 496rwhp on the same P1SC with a built motor, stock heads, and intake manifold. I plan on building my motor in the next 2 or 3 months including the head work, meth injection, and p51 intake manifold. Im hoping this stup will get me close to 600rwhp, but will be happy with anything over 550. Im not trying to say that procharger is the the only way to go or anything, just that Im happy with my setup.

Congrats I made 431 with my strim @11psi with stock, heads, intake, cams, and exhaust manifolds. Cams make a huge difference.

 

[01saleenkid144]

No cams yet. The car that I went for a ride in did swap the cams for an article in ff+mm and made about 45 rwhp if I remember correctly.

 

[ooraceredgt]

i have an s-trim and before it was installed i dynoed at 237rwhp. after the install i dynoed at 380rwhp and that was before i installed 42lb injectors,3.3 pulley,methanol/water injection, etc. i gained 143rwhp.

 

[ooraceredgt]

Thanks. I know my over thinking of everything would come in handy one day.

...Now I still gotta convince ppl that building a shortblock isn't brain surgery and doesn't cost $3,500 and that 5.4L swaps should be more common.

i'm listening sir. need a shortblock built.

 

[Rickey_Bobby]

i'm listening sir. need a shortblock built.

Send me a PM if your seriously looking for a motor.

-Steve

 

[fastfive_ogt]

AND A VERY SPECIAL THANKS TO MY LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST FOR HIS FREE GIFT OF SALVATION.

Hey Hotmustang331 AWSOME QUOTE........

 

[hotmustang331]

Thanks!

EDIT: I assume your a Christion too? If so, thats great news

 

[fastfive_ogt]

Yeah, and I must say its awsome to be in a secular web site and be here among other christians. God bless