OK, I will bite,
I know you know your stuff but a reply like that without a quilifier is kinda exactly what your reply meant. It sounds more like an opinion and your WELL within your rights to express that. I do not think your reply was directed at anything I posted so I am not taking offense and mean no offense to you.
If you feel information is bad how so?
I know alum. heads will make more power and you can find deals out there on those alum. heads.
I am just asking if the information is bad...what information is bad so those reading can make a better choice based on there budget/goals and how they want to reach those. If one chooses a path you did not but CAN reach his goals, is it wrong?
Paul, Grady, and others have expressed there reasons to disagree and they bring up very valid points...your not saying what they posted is bad are you since you did not say what info was bad?
I do not claim to know it all, and if there is something that can help make a combo if it is an alum. head or iron head run better...I am all ears.
It is not like the guy is selling his car for a Vtec 4 door civic with a fart can. It just sucks that in this hobby things get so opinionated(sp?) it happens every time with this iron/alum. thing, with the TFS vs. AFR, shop vs. shop, tuner vs. tuner, and on and on.
Now ... I can post up some oem iron head combos that have better looking
curves if anybody cares to see them
As you stated earlier, I wasnt speaking of you, and I wont single anybody out, but I will offer this. Saying that a set of ported stock heads is more cost efficient than a set of aluminum heads is crazy. A well put together ported stock head combo will net you in the 260-285rwhp, some are higher, but i'd have to says thats the average. Any what do you pay for ported stock heads? $700 or so, spring for a set of gt-40 heads $300-$400 then add in the porting, another $600 or so and you get into the $900-$1000 range. I inquired to a well know head porter, to have my gt-40 irons done by him and his quote was $900, and I already own the heads, if I had to buy them that would have been another $300.
So now we're at $1200 for a set of ported gt-40 irons. Then we have to add in shipping them to the porter at about $75, and he'll pay the return shipping back to you as its included in the $900 porting price.
I bought a brand new set of Trickflow heads, never installed for $695 on the corral. I know deals like this dont come along very often but used low mileage aluminum heads always go for between $750-$1000, lots of times they can be just bolted on, but lets say they need to be serviced at the machine shop.
Cleanup pass on the deck, new spring package, lets say $200-$300. So now were looking at a ballpark of $1150 for used heads that have been checked over and are ready to go. We'll then you can buy Trickflow Twisted wedge heads brand new for $1199 from Summit, and it will only be $10.95 for shipping them to you.
Now a well thought out aluminum headed combo will net you in the 300-325 rwhp range. Some more, some less, but thats about the average.
Ported stock heads
$700-$1275 shipped
260-285rwhp
Used or new aluminum heads
$800-$1210 shipped
300-325rwhp
Lets not forget the 45-50lb. weight drop off of the front end.
Now what makes more econimical sense to the guys who play the budget card?
Im sure you could have your stock heads ported by your cousins neighbors college roomate for $200 but hey you get what you pay for. The prices I used for the ported stock heads are from a very well know stock head porter that I wish not to name.
Now when I say "Alot of bad info here", you know what I mean.
Theres no comparison.
Nearly the same price for 45rwhp more and 45lbs. less weight.
im not sure where those figures are coming from. you can pick up take off gt40's quite often for $250. $240 at the machine shop will get you a 3 angle, surfacing, magnafluxing, cleanup, hot tank. add springs to accept a small cam, $150 .so now we are at $640 ready to go . and thats a fresh set of heads. on corral, there is a guy right now that has a set of ported gt40s fresh valve job and cleanup, etc with a set of springs for $500 shipped. he is the owner of super six motorsports.
a minimum 300 rwhp is hard to get even with aluminums in alot of cases. granted its easier to get with aluminums but LOTS of guys with expensive aluminum heads do not see 290 rwhp.
Ported stock heads
$700-$1275 shipped
260-285rwhp
Used or new aluminum heads
$800-$1210 shipped
300-325rwhp
i respectfully do not agree with those figures at all.
i dont see "alot of bad info here" in the thread
im not sure where those figures are coming from. you can pick up take off gt40's quite often for $250. $240 at the machine shop will get you a 3 angle, surfacing, magnafluxing, cleanup, hot tank. add springs to accept a small cam, $150 .so now we are at $640 ready to go . and thats a fresh set of heads. on corral, there is a guy right now that has a set of ported gt40s fresh valve job and cleanup, etc with a set of springs for $500 shipped. he is the owner of super six motorsports.
a minimum 300 rwhp is hard to get even with aluminums in alot of cases. granted its easier to get with aluminums but LOTS of guys with expensive aluminum heads do not see 290 rwhp.
Ported stock heads
$700-$1275 shipped
260-285rwhp
Used or new aluminum heads
$800-$1210 shipped
300-325rwhp
i respectfully do not agree with those figures at all.
i dont see "alot of bad info here" in the thread
Please show me where you get a 3-angle valve job, surfacing, cleanup, hot tank. add springs for $240?
Thats just crazy!!
A good valve job costs between $120-$170 all by itself
Surfacing goes for $40-$60
Springs go for $100-$200 depending on what you need
I'd say more like $300-$310 for all of the above posted
The cheapest ive seen gt-40's go for is $300 shipped
What do Thumpers ported E7's cost? $700
What do gt-40 irons cost? $300
What does Thumper charge for porting the gt-40 irons w/ new springs? $900+ you have to ship them to him which would be another $75
So how are my #'s off?
If you dont make 300rwhp w/ a set of aluminum heads, you are doing something wrong. Plain & simple.
When I asked thumper how much it would cost for the work done he said it was the same price for the gt40's as the E7's. If you did not need the springs and such I think is was around $650 but that is the ballpark of the $700 you posted. You also need to factor in that port job also includes a mill, tank, valve job, inspection of valves and paint. So the actuall port job is not bad at all.
Oh, my gosh, I can't kep up with all these comments, lol. Let's start out by saying aluminum heads are great!! I also want to say those of yo uin the aluminum 5.0 crowd, thanks for not flaming me. Its just one debate.
BUT Grady, I did not get 309rwhp with my trick flows.. I got 290... So anyway 275rwhp?...I would have taken that in a hearbeat for $500 Rio paid for his head vs my $1300+ for trick flows. That's my main point. I would like to know in your comparison..were they gt40 p's? or just gt40's? thx.
"Lets not forget the 45-50lb. weight drop off of the front end."
This is made out to be a much much bigger deal than it is and didn't make a hill of beans on my street car in my o. I didn't even feel the 100# taken of after the aluminums aAND removing the a/c. Now.. on the track I would see 1/10th and to that I say wohhoo ... big deal. To me it made no difference at all. Being 15feet further down the road on a street car or just 7 feet ahead ( for the weight difference in iron vs alum) makes very little difference. 0-60 all the way to 90mph, you are still going to be neck and neck! Again I am just street.
"Now what makes more econimical sense to the guys who play the budget card?
Im sure you could have your stock heads ported by your cousins neighbors college roomate for $200 but hey you get what you pay for. The prices I used for the ported stock heads are from a very well know stock head porter that I wish not to name."
Porting out the heads and paying for it is a bad idea I think also $$ wise. Yes. However if your cousins brother's uncle is good at it and don't charge much..it may be a consideration.
"Now when I say "Alot of bad info here", you know what I mean.
Theres no comparison.
Nearly the same price for 45rwhp more and 45lbs. less weight."
I think I missed the 45rwhp part by a mile. In most scenarios..itlooks more like and average of like 30rwhp at best and unless you are driving around at wot all the time, you won't feel it. In my case my car (and I think grady's aluminums are running just over 290rwhp - plenty more where that came from) when theres plenty of irons running 270- 275 and I think one guy got 280rwhp out of his. 45lbs again, don't mean anything to me. It might as well be 5# in the real world. At the track it may be a little ifferent over all.
Average for aluminum: 315rwhp
There will always be someone faster than you. Stick to your plan and your finances not someone elses.
post it up
maybe on a dynojet
i've seen mild HCI alum headed 302's make 315 rwhp, but i dont think thats a average number for most.
i never implied i wanted to beat aluminum headed HCI cars.