Mustang Drop Spindles

One of the things I've learned (often "the hard way"); is that when you're dealing with a bunch of committed enthusiasts (read:fanatics) such as those of us around here, there are very tightly held - not to mention very diverse -opinions of "What is exactly right!". Look at other discussions as people are working on their Mustangs.... "Getting rid of Ford's cheap xxxxxxxxxx!" "Why did they do that???" etc, etc, etc. Your original-design drop spindles met one of those first needs.

When the idea of making them "drum-type" spindles came up; "cries of joy!" as they would accomodate so many different brake designs that were already adapted to the drum spindle. This was important; because there are so many diverse designs, and so many diverse "backers" of each design. "FRE's disk-conversion is better than Acme's!" "Yeah, but the Thunder-chicken big brakes are great, even better if you use Chevro-mob-lac calipers!" You were serving a here it comes again) diverse market. You actually had even me initially, because I couldn't find any entity that had a solution for my factory disc spindles to go to larger brakes. The only thing that at first caused me to balk was the "drop" - I wasn't so sure that I wanted to lower my Coug. Plans change, I'm a convert.

If you think this is bad; you should live in my world; with two other competitors in the "Internet Broadband" market. We're less expensive (by half)than both; but
1.)The speed numbers on our price-leader product are "lower' than the cable company (that's deceptive because of the different delivery configurations, but subject of another discussion)
2.) You have to plug our modems into a phone jack. No the TV cable won't work (wrong company); and they don't pull the internet out of thin air (the third company).
Still I end up taking "It won't work! (because I don't have a phone jack near my computer)" calls; as well as "It's too slow! (Because, at 3AM on a Tuesday with everybody else in bed, the cable modem gives me real 3Mb/second on "Bob's Broadband Speed Test Page"; whereas your cheap-a$$ product only gives me 1.5!)"
"Yes, but ours does 1.5 all day, regardless of what time it is or who else is on!" The fact that we sell 7Mb service as well, doesn't come into play; because "It costs almost as much as a cable-modem!"

Diversity - ain't it a wonderful thing? Everybody has their own opinions about what is right; and you know what they say about opinions - even yours and mine.



I think there is something to be learned from this though - people are willing to pay more for what they want, regardless of how right it is.

I personally would pay EXTRA to use any brakes i want. But, like has been said before, as long as I can cut it off and use whatever I want, I don't care what you add on to this thing! Grinding wheels and sand paper rolls can fix anything - except a lack of metal :nonono:
 
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Really, really confused - thought PBR/Cobra WAS Baer Track?!

I am thoroughly confused at this point. I purchased a Baer "Track" 13" rotor front kit on the understanding that it was the same caliper as a PBR 2-piston and is quoted in numerous places as being the same as the "94-up Cobra" brake caliper. I bought them partly for the reason that it would be easier to find replacement parts than for something that was never an OEM part.

I would love to be able to purchase the spindle with Dennis' Cobra bracket.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the difference, if any, between the PBR calipers described below as "Cobra" and the PBR "Track" system I purchased that is pictured here?:

First, the Cobra brake calipers:

frontsuspension.jpg


and mine:

DSC03292.jpg


So, what's the difference? Or will Degins' kit, which works with a Cobra brake, work with my PBR/Baer Track kit? Any help appreciated - or am I taking crazy pills!??! :crazy:

http://www.streetortrack.com/Baer-Brakes-TRACK-front-kit-4301039CORE-pr-16317.html

2) Most users express the desire to use performance calipers/rotor sets with the spindle. This is a very important concern. By far, the current choice for performance is the Ford 13" rotor using the PBR aluminum sliding caliper commonly used on SN95 Cobra, Mach, and Bullitt.

I have address the 3 design/product goals. The spindle will have a 1.5" "drop". The spindle will directly mount a KH 4 piston caliper, will directly mount a GT SN95 PBR caliper/bracket (no intermediate bracket parts), and will accept my version of a bracket to allow the mounting of the "Cobra" caliper/bracket. I will produce a rotor (probably with a reinforced cast in hub) that will bring the caliper and rotor disc surface 1-2" closer to the car midline, as compared to the 2 leading competitor brackets.
 

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To my knowledge they are the same caliper with a different esthetic treatment. They use the same pads and rotors if I'm not mistaken.

I haven't examined one of the Baer pieces, but from everything I've heard, you are correct. If they use the same bracket as the Cobra piece, there will be no problem with mounting them on my spindle using the Cobra adapter. The adapter will not be expensive.
 
my only problem is that it leaves those of us who want something other than an 11" or 13" rotor out in the wind. i, for one, don't really want to stuck with what someone else tells me i have to use (no offense Dennis), i want to be able to run the brakes i've always wanted to run and that is basically the old T/A style 12" brake kit with the big lincoln/t-bird style K-H calipers with a D1 pad. i want this so i can have the biggest brakes possible that will fit in my 15" wheels. one of the reasons i wanted the spindle in the first place was to be able to run a wider or deeper offset 15" wheel, be able to run the 12" K-H brakes, and not lose any suspension travel when lowering my car. that is the entire reason for suggesting the use of the 70 drum spindle as a basis for the dropped spindle in the first place, otherwise any spindle design would have worked.

all i'm really asking is that the spindle include the original caliper bracket/dust shield mounting provisions so that those of us who do not want to run any of the offered brakes can cut the cast in bracket off and be able to use the brakes of our choice. i would be perfectly happy using brakes supplied by you, Dennis, if they were the style i wanted but you have stated that you have no plans to offer that style of brake, so i ask that you include those original mounting provisions in the design and i'll be perfectly happy to cut the bracket off and add my own brakes when/if i ever decide to upgrade them, that's all, if you can do that then i will be perfectly content.
 
1999-2004 Mustang V6/GT front caliper:
http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/126309.jpg
The '99-'04 SN95 V6/GT calipers have twin 44.5mm pistons.

V6/GT front brake pad:
http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/163854.jpg


1999-2004 Cobra front caliper:
http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/119668.jpg
There are two versions of the Cobra front calipers: One version has twin 38mm pistons, the other has twin 40mm pistons.

Cobra front brake pad:
http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/162368.jpg


The Cobra/Bullitt/Mach calipers will fit into the SN95 V6/GT anchor brackets (caliper cages), but the anchor brackets (themselves) between the V6/GTs vs. the Cobra is not the same. Both share the same 130mm mounting distance between the mounting points where the anchor brackets attach to the spindles, but the Cobra bracket has a higher stand off in order to mount the Cobra caliper over the larger diameter 13" rotor (in a stock application). If these setups are being installed on an earlier application it wasn't origninally designed for, then it's just a matter of figuring out the means to get them adapted on there.
 
Any updates?

The second proto is being modeled, as are brackets for PBR SN95 and Cobra calipers. The knuckle will have an integral mount point for the 65-66 type KH caliper.

On other fronts:
I should have the first protos in my hand soon for the SN 95 bracket for Granada spindle.

My 65-66 KH based kit parts are on route now. I just need to find a source for the bolts that hold the caliper onto the caliper bracket. They are called stripper or shoulder bolts. The shoulder, the part of the bolt shaft that has no threads on it, is larger diameter than the threads. They are sold by SSBC, but I can't rely on them for a critical part.

Dennis
 
My 65-66 KH based kit parts are on route now. I just need to find a source for the bolts that hold the caliper onto the caliper bracket. They are called stripper or shoulder bolts. The shoulder, the part of the bolt shaft that has no threads on it, is larger diameter than the threads. They are sold by SSBC, but I can't rely on them for a critical part.

Dennis

Check with Fastenall or McMaster-carr for the shoulder bolts. I've spec'd shoulder bolts out before on some oil rig designs and they are great...

Jim
 
Check with Fastenall or McMaster-carr for the shoulder bolts. I've spec'd shoulder bolts out before on some oil rig designs and they are great...

Jim
Thanks Jim, I'll check with them, although I fear that even if they quote, their bulk price will be more than the SSBC retail price ($3 ea). I usually seek to get very basic (close to the source) with my kit parts. I know who made them originally (Rockford Screw Products) . Their incarnate claims they can't/don't make them now. The ones sold by SSBC are an exact reproduction, right down to the brandmark. I'll eventually find a source.
 
Update/Design Question

Degins,
It seems that the interest for a drop '70 drum spindle does not meet your marketing plans but why not a drop '70 disk spindle (i.e. Granada)? The Granada brakes you currently sell would work and SN95 brakes would work with the bracket you recently designed for Granada spindles.
 
Degins,
It seems that the interest for a drop '70 drum spindle does not meet your marketing plans but why not a drop '70 disk spindle (i.e. Granada)? The Granada brakes you currently sell would work and SN95 brakes would work with the bracket you recently designed for Granada spindles.

I am still working on a drop spindle. It will be designed to use a SN95 caliper.