remember the guy...

vristang · Jul 12, 2008

1SickFox said:
vristang said:

What are you willing to put on the table to make that gaurantee.

1. Have you done any strength testing?
- YES, i've installed hose clamps on a compressed spring and they hold
2. Hell, have you done any strength calculations?
-Don't need to, i know it works
3. If someones vehicle is damaged because they tried your method, would you cover the cost of the damage?
-How would the vehicle get damaged? Even if the spring were to come unsprung is would be traped in by the strut, spindle, control arm. It count not go anywhere. Explain the damage

4. Unless you are willing to take responsibility for your claims, you shouldn't be making them.
You don't have to take responsibility for claims, and if you did. Your saying that you'll take responsibility if the "correct method" spring compressor brakes and kills somebody?

Click to expand...

Added in some numbering so it would be easier to read...
1. Strength Testing requires the part/specimen to be loaded to failure. This is done in a test lab, and massive amounts of data are usually taken.
There is NO WAY you can say hose clamps are reliable and safe at spring loads, UNLESS you know the Plastic limit and Failure Load.
(this is the kind of stuff I do for a living btw

)

2. This is exactly the kind of ignorant back woods comment I get so frustrated with. Again,

If you don't DIE in the first round of Russian Roullette, Does that prove the game is safe?

3. Once again you prove that you are ignorant, and that you don't even care enough to think things through...
Joel posted a link to a spring that went uncontrolled. Imagine that spring shooting around inside your wheel well.
If you don't see how that could cause damage, then you are a retard after all.

4. What claim have I made?
To answer this question properly, you will have to quote me... you don't get to 'rephrase' my words on this...
Your claim was pretty straight forward...

1SickFox said:
Use the Hose clamp method. It works perfect. Its safe as well.

Sadly though, you have nothing to back up your claim of safety...

jason

92GreenGT · Jul 12, 2008

This tops a lot of the threads I have saw on here. Guys, listen to what Jason and others are telling you, do NOT use hose clamps for such a job. Doing a spring swap is beyond easy and shouldn't require paying someone to do it for you if you have normal tools. Just remember to take your time and you will be fine.

I swapped stock springs back into my car with spring compressors and had zero issues. Installing lowering springs is even easier becuase of the shorter height. Remember to use a safety chain and the correct compressor from any auto parts store and you'll be golden. There is NO point in doing something the "wrong" way or just getting by way when you can do it correctly with not much more effort and a LOT more safety factor.

-Edit-
If no one has done a spring swap How To by the time I get back from my trip today, I'll write one up for you all.

riceslayer302 · Jul 12, 2008

92GreenGT said:
This tops a lot of the threads I have saw on here. Guys, listen to what Jason and others are telling you, do NOT use hose clamps for such a job. Doing a spring swap is beyond easy and shouldn't require paying someone to do it for you if you have normal tools. Just remember to take your time and you will be fine.

I swapped stock springs back into my car with spring compressors and had zero issues. Installing lowering springs is even easier becuase of the shorter height. Remember to use a safety chain and the correct compressor from any auto parts store and you'll be golden. There is NO point in doing something the "wrong" way or just getting by way when you can do it correctly with not much more effort and a LOT more safety factor.

-Edit-
If no one has done a spring swap How To by the time I get back from my trip today, I'll write one up for you all.

ide be interested in this, i will post up the hose clamp how to as well and we can compare and discuss.

Guys im not trying to argue that my way is safe, just that it works... please dont look down on me or think im some kind of backwoods idiot haha.

Jason, i understand you do this kind of stuff for a living and trust me i totally respect your advice. The whole point of this thread was to point out that it can be done.

mustanggt5pt0 · Jul 12, 2008

I've read numerous "how to" threads for changing Fox springs, and they all seemed to end with "wear a motorcycle helmet and good luck". I almost ended up using the hose clamp method after I read, on more than one occasion, that it works. Instead I ended up utilizing a different method I read that seemed to be safer. I just jacked the LCA into place from the back as others have done which worked, but again still not the safest considering I had to gently "pound" the LCA bolt through, which could do some fun stuff to the balancing act. I do agree with Sam though that the spring compressors from auto parts stores won't work, at least they didn't for me, (I was installing a stock spring set so that may have been the difference), the one that you need is the compressor, wherever the link went, that goes through the center of the spring for $300, that is the compressor that dealers will use. I couldn't rent one anywhere, and wasn't willing to fork out the dough, so like I mentioned I just jacked up the LCA. I agree, as others have mentioned, that this is a great thread with many different opinions and its nice that it hasn't been locked. I just hope this thread doesnt scare people away from working on springs.

vristang · Jul 12, 2008

riceslayer302 said:
Guys im not trying to argue that my way is safe, just that it works... please dont look down on me or think im some kind of backwoods idiot haha.

I am trying... but must admit that I'm having a great deal of difficulty with that request.
You have acknowledged the inherent risk in this activity, yet you continue to state that it works, and recommend it.

You have to admit Sam... there is a branch missing in your logic tree :shrug:

riceslayer302 said:
Jason, i understand you do this kind of stuff for a living and trust me i totally respect your advice. The whole point of this thread was to point out that it can be done.

Sam, you seem fairly level headed, which I respect.

But promoting an activity that you have admitted to be risky... is irresponsible.

(I tried to phrase that in a "PC" way... but it just didn't work)

vristang · Jul 12, 2008

mustanggt5pt0 said:
I agree, as others have mentioned, that this is a great thread with many different opinions and its nice that it hasn't been locked. I just hope this thread doesnt scare people away from working on springs.

Nor do I!!!

I'm not trying to say that the average guy can't swap out his own springs and live to tell about.
In fact, just the opposite.
ANYONE can figure out how to use the proper tool to do a job. If you don't have the mechanical inclination or patience to take the time to perform the task safely, then take your car to a shop. (there is no shame in this btw... there are a couple of jobs that I won't perform myself)

My point is simple.
Take the time to do the job right. Before you take action, look at the potential for injury in what you are about to do. Think about what could go wrong, how to react to it, and most importantly... Think about how to prevent it from happening.
This applies to anything you do on your car... even just using a jack and stands to change the oil.

jason

riceslayer302 · Jul 12, 2008

ok jason... im going out to my garage right now, i will show you what im talking about since i have both types of compressors, the outside and the up through the center styles. neither of which fit for me, the compressor that goes up through the spring is too long and you cant get it in because the bolt sticks up through the spring, also you cant get it down through the a-arms. is the proper way to use the tool to leave the fork inside the spring when your done??? please, in all your wisdom, save me from myself.

ill be back in an hour or two, pray for me.

NIKwoaC · Jul 12, 2008

stalemate
Noun
1. a chess position in which any of a player's moves would place his king in check: in this position the game ends in a draw
2. a situation in which further action by two opposing forces is impossible or will not achieve anything; deadlock [obsolete stale standing place + checkmate]

-Taken from Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia and Thesaurus. Free access.

I think you need to respectfully disagree and walk away from this thread, fellas. You are all starting to sound like broken records. It's clear that using hose clamps to remove/install springs is dangerous, and yet it is also clear that some people have successfully used this method with their springs.

At this point it just sounds like you guys are enjoying the argument, because its obviously beyond either party accepting defeat.

stang&2Birds · Jul 12, 2008

If anyone can't find the right spring compressor for a Ford, then they are CLUELESS on how to use the net. Hey, maybe I'll make a net search engine, call it Google, have it be one of the biggest companies in the world, and be a zillonair!

Here is a MEGA DUH link!!
otc 7045b - Google Search

To see how to properly use the correct tool:
Spring install on a Mustang using the OTC spring tool
(Note: I have a Steeda 1/4 spacer on top of the isolator.)

Now, what is so damn hard about using or finding the proper tool and doing it safely? NOTHING!
So, it all comes down to cost, impatience (a stupid and dangerous quality when working on suspensions), or being misled by believing the dangerous and unsafe advice from others!

IMHO, if you do things cheaply and endanger you life, that's your choice! But, do not go on the forums and suggest to others that doing a stupid and dangerous things are safe.

Wow, just wow!

vristang · Jul 12, 2008

Sam,
I must admit, I gave up on the 'through the middle' style that I found around here. I don't remember what the issue was though, as that was probably 10yrs ago.
Instead I used the style that clamps on the outside of the spring.
There are some tight clearances...
If I remember right, the lower flange on the lower control arm was one of them.

I used the compressor to take the pressure off the control arm, before removing ANY bolts.
Then was able to safely drop the lower control arm using a jack. The jack was never used to counteract the spring force.
(I would like to add that I was on the other side of the car working the jack. I didn't see any reason to be near the spring at that point... JIC
and it allowed the jack to move across the width of the vehicle, as the lower ctrl arm dropped.)

Once I had the spring out, I made a mental note on how the compressors were mounted on the spring, as that was the only way the compressor/spring assy would fit back in the car as a single unit.
I pulled the compressors from the old spring, put them on the new spring and compressed it taking the time to ensure the spring was being compressed evenly.

Once I had compressed the spring enough, it could be placed into the car.
I think I used a jack at this point as well, but didn't take any spring load with it. The jack was just there to help hold the ctrl arm while I monkey'd everything into position.

After all fasteners were back in place, then I started backing off the compressor.

The above is how I did the springs in my 1987 2.3 LX, probably 4 months ago.
Hopefully I didn't leave anything out, but please do ask questions...

EDIT:
I want everyone to understand that I did not use the 'proper' tool for the same reasons these guys didn't. The one I found locally, was not fitting the vehicle in a way I felt comfortable with.
I found the outside spring compressors, and had better luck with that.
Now that I have found out what the official Ford tool is for this job... (thanks to others having posted in this thread),
I will be making the $300+ purchase for future use.
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/otc7045b.html

jason

vristang · Jul 12, 2008

NikwoaC said:
stalemate
Noun
1. a chess position in which any of a player's moves would place his king in check: in this position the game ends in a draw
2. a situation in which further action by two opposing forces is impossible or will not achieve anything; deadlock [obsolete stale standing place + checkmate]

-Taken from Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia and Thesaurus. Free access.

Your contribution was worthless.

Thanks for taking the effort to tell us how you don't think the thread is going anywhere. That is just SO helpful.

Seriously,
Why do people feel the need to jump in a thread, and make worthless comments about the threads content?
If you don't like the content, THEN DON'T READ IT!

93 teal terror · Jul 12, 2008

vristang said:
Sam,
I must admit, I gave up on the 'through the middle' style that I found around here. I don't remember what the issue was though, as that was probably 10yrs ago.
Instead I used the style that clamps on the outside of the spring.
There are some tight clearances...
If I remember right, the lower flange on the lower control arm was one of them.

I used the compressor to take the pressure off the control arm, before removing ANY bolts.
Then was able to safely drop the lower control arm using a jack. The jack was never used to counteract the spring force.
(I would like to add that I was on the other side of the car working the jack. I didn't see any reason to be near the spring at that point... JIC
and it allowed the jack to move across the width of the vehicle, as the lower ctrl arm dropped.)

Once I had the spring out, I made a mental note on how the compressors were mounted on the spring, as that was the only way the compressor/spring assy would fit back in the car as a single unit.
I pulled the compressors from the old spring, put them on the new spring and compressed it taking the time to ensure the spring was being compressed evenly.

Once I had compressed the spring enough, it could be placed into the car.
I think I used a jack at this point as well, but didn't take any spring load with it. The jack was just there to help hold the ctrl arm while I monkey'd everything into position.

After all fasteners were back in place, then I started backing off the compressor.

The above is how I did the springs in my 1987 2.3 LX, probably 4 months ago.
Hopefully I didn't leave anything out, but please do ask questions...

EDIT:
I want everyone to understand that I did not use the 'proper' tool for the same reasons these guys didn't. The one I found locally, was not fitting the vehicle in a way I felt comfortable with.
I found the outside spring compressors, and had better luck with that.
Now that I have found out what the official Ford tool is for this job... (thanks to others having posted in this thread),
I will be making the $300+ purchase for future use.
OTC 7045B - Spring Compressor Front Coil

jason

If you do buy it, shop around. I think mine was $260 or so plus shipping.

riceslayer302 · Jul 12, 2008

im done, ill post pics tonight

1SickFox · Jul 12, 2008

PROOF VR IS AND IDIOT!

vristang said:
I want everyone to understand that I did not use the 'proper' tool for the same reasons these guys didn't. The one I found locally, was not fitting the vehicle in a way I felt comfortable with.
jason

Followed by this....

stang&2Birds said:
If anyone can't find the right spring compressor for a Ford, then they are CLUELESS on how to use the net. Hey, maybe I'll make a net search engine, call it Google, have it be one of the biggest companies in the world, and be a zillonair!

Here is a MEGA DUH link!!
otc 7045b - Google Search

To see how to properly use the correct tool:
Spring install on a Mustang using the OTC spring tool
(Note: I have a Steeda 1/4 spacer on top of the isolator.)

Now, what is so damn hard about using or finding the proper tool and doing it safely? NOTHING!
So, it all comes down to cost, impatience (a stupid and dangerous quality when working on suspensions), or being misled by believing the dangerous and unsafe advice from others!

IMHO, if you do things cheaply and endanger you life, that's your choice! But, do not go on the forums and suggest to others that doing a stupid and dangerous things are safe.

Wow, just wow!

All this talk that VR is saying about using the "proper way" only to find out that he himself couldn't do it the proper way either? What does that tell you. Wow man, you truely are an idiot. You smash us because be can't find the proper tool and do it by the "text book" only to realize that you yourself didn't do it the "text book" way. WOW, JUST WOW!

View attachment 311258

1SickFox · Jul 12, 2008

Words of advice

stang&2Birds said:
If anyone can't find the right spring compressor for a Ford, then they are CLUELESS on how to use the net. Hey, maybe I'll make a net search engine, call it Google, have it be one of the biggest companies in the world, and be a zillonair!

Here is a MEGA DUH link!!
otc 7045b - Google Search

To see how to properly use the correct tool:
Spring install on a Mustang using the OTC spring tool
(Note: I have a Steeda 1/4 spacer on top of the isolator.)

Now, what is so damn hard about using or finding the proper tool and doing it safely? NOTHING!
So, it all comes down to cost, impatience (a stupid and dangerous quality when working on suspensions), or being misled by believing the dangerous and unsafe advice from others!

IMHO, if you do things cheaply and endanger you life, that's your choice! But, do not go on the forums and suggest to others that doing a stupid and dangerous things are safe.

Wow, just wow!

I got some words for you as well since your the almighty man. First, your suggesting that i order some tool over the internet? Oh and did i mention that the TOOL is $324.95??? Are you nuts? Oh and just to shove this in your face. Did you know, that is not the actuall tool the Ford suggests using? So thats not the proper tool you idiot. Hm, how do i know that you ask? Oh because the proper tool is listed in my original FORD DEALERSHIP manual. And guess what, that tool is no longer being produced! How do i know? Because i tried to buy it. Then i went to Autozone, CarQuest, and all those stores trying to find a replacement that worked. Do you know what i found out? That they all DON'T WORK. None of them locally would fit between the strut and or control arm. So heres what i did.

Hose Clamp Method!
1. Use the spring compressor i have at our shop = FREE
2. Compressed the spring using a spring compressor
3. While the spring was compressed i installed 5 hose clamps per side
4. Removed the spring compressor
5. The hose clamps kept the spring compressed
6. Installed the compressed spring(by hose clamps) into the my control arm
7. Jacked up the control arm
8. Connected the strut to the spindle
9. DONE

Cost - $5.00 for 10 hose clamps.
Approx. Time - 10 minutes.

1SickFox · Jul 12, 2008

VRISTANG + STANG&2BIRDS

Don't try to tell me that the Hose clamp method is anymore unsafe then the "proper method", because its not. Nothing in life is 100% safe. We drive cars everyday, its not safe. Don't give me that crap. Secondly, don't try to make me look like a fool becuase i dont' do it the "Proper way" with the "Proper tools", because you "EXPERTS" as you like to call yourselves don't do it that way either. So quiet. The hose clamp method is not only the easiest method, but the cheapest, least hassle, and fastest method as well. The hose clamps will NOT fail, and there is no way your getting hit by the spring.

joel5.0 · Jul 12, 2008

1SickFox said:
I got some words for you as well since your the almighty man. First, your suggesting that i order some tool over the internet? Oh and did i mention that the TOOL is $324.95??? Are you nuts? Oh and just to shove this in your face. Did you know, that is not the actuall tool the Ford suggests using? So thats not the proper tool you idiot. Hm, how do i know that you ask? Oh because the proper tool is listed in my original FORD DEALERSHIP manual. And guess what, that tool is no longer being produced! How do i know? Because i tried to buy it. Then i went to Autozone, CarQuest, and all those stores trying to find a replacement that worked. Do you know what i found out? That they all DON'T WORK. None of them locally would fit between the strut and or control arm.

Bad information there........ the OEM compressor Ford recommends for the 5.0L/4.6 setups is D78P-5310-A which is:

OTC 7045B is:

Aren't they the same tool?..... guess why......... now if for some reason you refer to the compressor used for non-V8 suspensions, that would be Ford OEM T82P-5310-A, or

Now...... guess why the OTC compressor has two sets of different size ID plates...........

The hose clamps method is UNSAFE, RISKY, and is more prone to failure by OBVIOUS reasons (some don't want to look at) PERIOD.

If any of you out there want to go through the CORRECT/SAFER procedure (yes..... nothing in life is fail-proof.... death is the only exception)..... check this procedure. This specific item is NOT an opinion based topic, when safety is involved, the only "opinions" that are acceptable, are the ones from MD's after the fact. Which are the ones Jason and stang&2Birds (myself included now) are trying for any of you readers to avoid...... or is that too hard to comprehend?

To the OP, I work in cars almost 7-12, I have my little inventory of tools at my disposal...... but one stupidity I've learned to avoid, is not attempt to do a contracted service if I don't have the correct tools..... specially when limbs, the ability to work tomorrow, or the chance to enjoy family and relatives is at risk. You can continue to do that procedure your way, it's your prerogative...... among other names, but your action of recommending it as a safe procedure, is simply irresponsible and ignorant. Oh!..... and just in case you wonder why I might not be so "politically correct" with this reply......... when you have had your share of close calls, you learn....... and this is one topic that "political correctness" is as valuable as a $3 bill.

... you need plenty.

vristang · Jul 12, 2008

1SickFox said:
All this talk that VR is saying about using the "proper way" only to find out that he himself couldn't do it the proper way either? What does that tell you. Wow man, you truely are an idiot. You smash us because be can't find the proper tool and do it by the "text book" only to realize that you yourself didn't do it the "text book" way. WOW, JUST WOW!

1. I stated before, my name is Jason... I don't think there is any need to stick with screen names at this point.

2. Let's look at what tool I did use... Here's something similar at the local parts retailer...
While we find your parts, please enter your ZIP Code at PartsAmerica.com

Now, let's compare that to the 'tool' you used... a hose clamp.

When you get right down to it, there is 1 major difference between what I did on my last spring job, and what you have done.
That being...

The tool I used was still designed to reliably handle suspension coil loads

Surely, you will be able to understand that difference.

Still,
There is yet another difference between you and I that should be pointed out.
That being...

I am not telling others to use a method which may or may not get them hurt or killed.

You have zero reliability testing to back up your claim that the hose clamps are safe, yet you keep telling others that it's safe. :shrug:

Have you called one of the hose clamp manufacturers yet, to see if they would endorse your use of hose clamps?

jason

riceslayer302 · Jul 13, 2008

joel5.0 said:
To the OP, I work in cars almost 7-12, I have my little inventory of tools at my disposal...... but one stupidity I've learned to avoid, is not attempt to do a contracted service if I don't have the correct tools..... specially when limbs, the ability to work tomorrow, or the chance to enjoy family and relatives is at risk. You can continue to do that procedure your way, it's your prerogative...... among other names, but your action of recommending it as a safe procedure, is simply irresponsible and ignorant. Oh!..... and just in case you wonder why I might not be so "politically correct" with this reply......... when you have had your share of close calls, you learn....... and this is one topic that "political correctness" is as valuable as a $3 bill.

View attachment 311162 ... you need plenty.

quote me where i said this procedure was safe

riceslayer302 · Jul 13, 2008

ok well as i promised, i took some pictures of, "the hose clamp method" for everyone to check out... i dont wanna hear it. but here it is...

first, jack the car up by the crossmember, let the a-arms sag. unbolt the strut from the shock tower caster camber plates. if the a-arm is hanging as far down as you can get it you can pop a stock spring out pretty easily, i just put a 3 foot prybar in there and jammed it out. prolly not safe, but thats how i did it...