in case u ever wondered what the s/c cobras rwhp stock..

[Zero Signal]

My perfect stang is still a notchback fox with an 03/04 Cobra engine with a KB and Cobra IRS

 

[BlackVert]

I think what his point was, you need a really good HCI setup to hit that number. Then you need to drop $500-$750 on a good tune just to be able to run that combo. All for 300hp which IMO is no where near enough firepower on the streets around here, hell six bangers are doin that. In the land of LSX's and SRT-8's 300hp is nothing. That 03-04 is sounding better and better.

yes, that was the point. if we were to add up all the things we do to our cars and put a price on all the time, effort and energy we have spent to eek out a few more horses, i think we would be surprised to see that the number is closer to the 16-18k that a cobra goes for these days. and then what do we have? a 13 year old modified car that probably could use new paint and interior, is not nearly as fast as the cobra. and it is worth a whole lot less than the money we have put into it should we ever decide to get another car.

i know with my car, even before my latest fiasco of a project (the 410 with all the tranny problems), including the cost of the car, i was probably pretty close to 15 grand. and my paint and interior are showing their age.

and i don't even want to think about the cost of the 410 and all the money i have thrown away with the transmission issues and getting rid of the crappy long tubes i got. adding that cost, i'm definately over 30 grand dumped into this car, and it still needs paint and a new interior.

realizing that an essentially stock 03 cobra is just as fast or faster than what i have been working towards, is almost 10 years younger (paint and interior), and "only" runs in the 18 grand range, it really makes me wonder why am i killing myself with my car when i could have gotten one of those and been done with it a long time ago, and actually be driving it without worrying?

oh, and by the way, yes, i can change my own oil, but for me it is worth the $29 to have someone else do it so i don't have to deal with cleaning the oil off my driveway and disposing of the old oil.

maybe it is just me, but i am getting to the point where the time and effort is more valuable than the dollars.

 

[Zero Signal]

yes, that was the point. if we were to add up all the things we do to our cars and put a price on all the time, effort and energy we have spent to eek out a few more horses, i think we would be surprised to see that the number is closer to the 16-18k that a cobra goes for these days. and then what do we have? a 13 year old modified car that probably could use new paint and interior, is not nearly as fast as the cobra. and it is worth a whole lot less than the money we have put into it should we ever decide to get another car.

i know with my car, even before my latest fiasco of a project (the 410 with all the tranny problems), including the cost of the car, i was probably pretty close to 15 grand. and my paint and interior are showing their age.

and i don't even want to think about the cost of the 410 and all the money i have thrown away with the transmission issues and getting rid of the crappy long tubes i got. adding that cost, i'm definately over 30 grand dumped into this car, and it still needs paint and a new interior.

realizing that an essentially stock 03 cobra is just as fast or faster than what i have been working towards, is almost 10 years younger (paint and interior), and "only" runs in the 18 grand range, it really makes me wonder why am i killing myself with my car when i could have gotten one of those and been done with it a long time ago, and actually be driving it without worrying?

oh, and by the way, yes, i can change my own oil, but for me it is worth the $29 to have someone else do it so i don't have to deal with cleaning the oil off my driveway and disposing of the old oil.

maybe it is just me, but i am getting to the point where the time and effort is more valuable than the dollars.

I agree that. The modern tech is just SO much better than what we have. We have a semi modern body with antiquated technology in the motor and suspension. It's an upstream battle. The newer cars are leaps and bounds better. I still want to finish my car and enjoy it's last 100k miles of life before getting rid of it, but I'll most likely end up with something modern and easy for my next ride. The 2010 mustang is looking pretty sexy. Add a blower and it's good times. That or a black STI.

 

[FastDriver]

Well then hold on for the new engine packages that should be coming in 2011 or so.

Chris

 

[revhead347]

I don't think the technology is really the issue. If you put an Eaton blower on a basically stock 5.0, you can put down 400 to the wheels. Everyone knows that the real issue with 5.0 motors is that the heads are so restrictive. I don't much care for the 4.6. I just don't like small bore motors. Now the LSX motors, that's something totally different. That's a large bore motor with better valve angle, and good flowing heads. You can't outrun an LSX engine mod for mod with a small block Ford engine. Anyway, I don't think the technology adds up to that much.

Kurt

 

[FastDriver]

I don't think the technology is really the issue. If you put an Eaton blower on a basically stock 5.0, you can put down 400 to the wheels. Everyone knows that the real issue with 5.0 motors is that the heads are so restrictive. I don't much care for the 4.6. I just don't like small bore motors. Now the LSX motors, that's something totally different. That's a large bore motor with better valve angle, and good flowing heads. You can't outrun an LSX engine mod for mod with a small block Ford engine. Anyway, I don't think the technology adds up to that much.

Kurt

I'm not so sure a stock 5.0 at 8 psi with an eaton would make the 370 rwhp that 03 Cobras do. In fact, at 200 rwhp, it'd be hard pressed to make that amount of power without 15 psi. With heads, intake, and eaton you could pull it off, though.

LS1s are not mythical beings. A properly setup 347 can run just as hard as an LS1 346c.i. motor. The aftermarket heads for Fords flow just as well as their counterparts for LS1s. I have to disagree here. You're talking a 3.90 bore for the LS1 if memory serves and a 4.030 bore for the 347. So basically the same dimensions. I'm not sure if you're trying to take the vehicle platforms into consideration, as well. If that's the case, then I'd say that a similarly built 347 in a notch fox-body would beat the LS1 in a Camaro, Trans-am, or Vette.

 

[revhead347]

I have lots of friends with LS1 cars. With ported stock heads and a cam less radical than mine, same compression, they put more to the wheels than I do with my 347. The head design inherant with the LSX car is better than the head design of the old Ford pushrod engines. The cathedral style intake port along with the steeper valve angle and more hemispherical combustion chamber goes a long way. Not that we are comparing apples to apples. The last year of the 5.0 in the Mustang was 95' and the LS1 was introduced in the 97' Vette. I still beat all my friends at the track though. Less weight and a better driver also goes along way.

Kurt

 

[Pokageek]

For one Chris, the cobras dont sell for 16k, not a good one. They sell for $21k around here so add $5k to your figure. I think if u didnt have your trans problems you would have felt better about it. That's why i went gforce-5spd. I never had a trans issue at all. My issues all came down to inferior heads trying to short-cut.

Secondly, the stroker 351w can make all that power without pa. All you need is good heads, nice cam and spider intake, good headers and you're at 500rwhp. I am sure ed can make a cam that has good low end on the hwy yet great upper end hP. I am quite satisfied with my power level @5200 max right now but there's room to grow in the rpm band with large c.i. I bet you are maxing @4800 rpm right now yourself.

For the cobra to get past that you have to throw alot of money at it. Even to get it to upper 400's you have to change out the fuel pump or modify that, plus do a number of other things and their injectors are also taxed at that level. So add another 2k for that part then you are at 23k. Its not completely greener lol. You would end up paying over 20k and saved a lot of time tho, true. Trans is bullet, suspension is awesome, forged engine all true. BTW these things grip incredibly well in the rain too!

 

[neoxaero]

I thought about getting an 03/04 cobra to replace my totaled out vette (man i miss that car..)

I decided to go with the 94/95 5.0 because _i like the car_ -- Always wanted one back when I was in high school...

I got a pretty decent deal for my car -- 3k bux with the novi 2k S/C..

Now while its had quite a few issues I've had to work out -- most of that is done already...

All in all, I should have about 12-14k tied up in this car when I'm done (low side estimate honestly).. I'm currently about 7k into it -- But I'll have a car that I want, built the way I want it...

Agent 47 front end (K-Member, double A-Arms, coil overs)
03/04 Cobra IRS rear end -- But, I'm honestly considering a rear end setup similar to what Agent 47 are running in their race car (3 link rear)
T-56 transmission (maybe a TR-6060?)

A friend of mine had nothing buy problems from his 03 S281, then he sold it and bought an 04 cobra...
Had a TON of issues with that car as well, until he sold it and bought an 02 z06 with a built motor (we're talking 800rwhp) .. but he has quite a few issues with that car as well - in fact I dont think i've seen it on the road for more than 2-3 days at a time...

Newer doesn't always mean better, or cheaper -- but the again, its all in what you're trying to accomplish...

 

[Pokageek]

thats all true but that vette is a totally differnt category and costs $$$ more than any of the cars we are talking about not to mention modding costs. $$ for $$ and actually all around I like ur car better.

 

[final5-0]

I see the newer offerings from Ford from a different perspective

Yes ... The 03 Cobras do make a lot of power

But ... I mean ... ANYBODY can write out a check :Word:

To me ... Hot Rodding is all about ... doing it yourself

I got way ... way ... more respect for the guy or gal that

They did the research to come up with a really good plan for a combo
and then
They put it all together to enjoy it just as they expected

I'm just a hands on ... kinda guy

another thing ... them mod motors ... they are too little

Just my way of seeing it

Grady

 

[neoxaero]

thats all true but that vette is a totally differnt category and costs $$$ more than any of the cars we are talking about not to mention modding costs. $$ for $$ and actually all around I like ur car better.

My friend paid 26k for the vette w/o a super charger -- I think after everything said and done hes only got about 32-33k into the car

To get to the same HP level you'd have as much, or more into a Cobra

My point was, once you start mod'ing any car they _can_ become incredibly unreliable ...

And it costs about the same amount of money to make 500-600hp no matter which mustang you're doing it with... Ours just have a lower up front cost

I figure that with the amount of money I'll have tied up in my stang, i could come close to having a paid for _stock_ cobra or vette (really, you can pick up 98-2k coupes around here for 16-20k dollars - about the same for 03/04 cobras)

It all comes down to what you're trying to achieve though... Having a good looking daily driver is nice -- but I'm not trying to pick up high school girls or random hoochies anymore, so I could care less what my car looks like, as long as it runs like a raped ape .. LOL

 

[martyd]

I dont care what anyone will say, a C5+ Vette is in a totally different segment than any Mustang that has been mass produced. I am not downing ford either but the Corvette is a sports car in every sense. It turns hard, it brakes hard, and has a killer mid to high rpm power and it is just a much tighter car. They are lighter, more nimble, like I said they are sports cars. The 03/04 cobra's are great deals though IMO, I wished they would have had a solid rear axle though because everyone knows what the cars were going to be used for.

But as far as modding 5.0's to compete with the newer cars, you dont need to think about it that way. Mod a car because you love modding, mod a car to see what you can do with your own hands. This is my way of thinking, nobody will touch my cars other than me and my buddies. Sure it takes longer and sometimes we have to take it back apart and re do something but I love it. I just got my fox body. The first Ford I have ever owned but you better believe that when I pull up to a redlight and my car is beating the ****ing ground, running 12's at the track, being able to turn on a dime, and looking good doing it that I am going to care less what can and cant outrun me.

I love cars, a little to much sometimes. I have let good women pass through my life because of my love of cars, I will not live in a place that people do not like modding cars, I refuse to live in a state that has emmisions testing. It may seem extream but it is my life and will be untill I more than likely end up dieing in one of the cars I have built.

 

[Pokageek]

Wow Z06's do not hold their value! ..21k dealer retail...for an 02' I just checked. I like my Ford better tho. I could have sold it and bought a Porshe but I like my stang.

The reason is that I like the sound of it and the looks better than a vette. BUT my point is that new it is a high-dollar car compared to stangs. This means I get to shock others when I blow them away in a stang which is a considerably less expensive car. $4200 that I paid vs $21 for an out-dated vette that in my o is not as good quality as the cobra or even mine in terms of interior. The interior materials in my 94' are superior to the cheap plastic in that chevy...but don't get me started.

So Hang on a sec..I paid $4200 for my car. Supporting mods to 800rwhp-1000rwhp on a windsor would add up to about $19k TOTAL cost..Thats a far cry from $33k. I still say our cars are a winner, the trick is to do it right the first time around OR sell your old parts. MAke sense?

 

[martyd]

Wow Z06's do not hold their value! ..21k dealer retail... I like my Ford better tho. I could have sold it and bought a Porshe but I like my stang.

The reason is that I like the sound of it and the looks better than a vette. BUT my point is that new it is a high-dollar car compared to stangs. This means I get to shock others when I blow them away in a stang which is a considerably less expensive car. $4200 that I paid vs $21 for an out-dated vette that in my o is not as good quality. The interior materials in my 94' are superior to the cheap plastic in that chevy...but don't get me started.

I had a C5 and I'm sorry but the interior is not cheap feeling and how you say any mustang pre 05(built on a 25+ year old platform) is more up to date than a C5+ vette is beyond me.

 

[millhouse]

I had a C5 and I'm sorry but the interior is not cheap feeling and how you say any mustang pre 05(built on a 25+ year old platform) is more up to date than a C5+ vette is beyond me.

I'm sorry...but the c5 was always regarded by every major review as having a cheap interior. Perhaps you didn't have much to compare it to....but it reminds me of my current $12000 (brand spankin new) pontiac g5. Sure, the seats may be leather....but they should not even be comparable.

 

[Pokageek]

My friend has an 04' vette that is cheap a$$ interior. The 06' caddie I rented had a cheap a$$ interior. And yes, that is exactly what I am telling you. The cobra and even my 94' has a better interior than the new model vettes. Look at the 08-09's in the latest car magazines and they compare the interior quality to that of an old hyunda. The 94' stangs interior was not bas at all (I should know i have taken them apart). It was as good as my 04' 5 series. .. but i am way off topic. See, U said don't get me started.

 

[revhead347]

IMHO, not only is the 94-95 stang the best looking stang of all time, it also has the best interior of all the stangs. You can't justify the cost of a fast car no matter what it is. You just have to get what you want, and except that it is an investment that depreciates quickly.

Kurt

 

[blksn955.o]

I almost sold my mustang and my DD to get an 02-ish Z06...they are like you said in the mid/low 20's...I would have been looking at like a 12-14k loan . I was hoping the wife would shoot me down and she said...ah...OK its win, win for me...ride in a nice mustang or a nice vett. The interior is good enough for me for everything else you get for the price. Hell put a 150 shot on it and shock a few non-driver/half arse c6 zo6 owners.

In the end I did not want to be "the guy who DD a vett" and I sure did not want to drive on in STL's snow, ice, salt, crap winter. Plus the mustang is paid for...if I dont feel like messing with it, then it sits not costing me a dime. Plus I can buy a new fusion when I get off my duff and have a new car AND my toy.

the whole build vs. buy in relation to a car...I like wrenching onm learningm and just getting my head some place else for a bit. On the cars that REALLY move like dedicated drag cars or cars that are more strip than street at like say a low 9 and 8 second or faster cars. You generally need expert help and most engines are outsourced, chassis is outsourced, trans and rear are outsourced then tuning is sent to a specialist as well. I dont say they bought a race car as there will be some learning going on there as well...just its a little more serious than most hobby/shade trees will go.

That said...going out and acting like king of the chit pile because you have a damn near 100% production car does not impress me. I think those that are in the know/hobby-ists, love things with a engine, gear heads, dont really care...to me its all about having fun and enjoying the hobby and meeting people with a like mindset.

 

[FastDriver]

You guys are out of your minds praising the mustang interior while in the same sentence downplaying the vette interior. The reason the mags downplay the vette's interior is because they're comparing it to high end sports cars like Porsches, and the BMW M5, etc... Those magazine reviews never praised the old mustangs except in comparison to the Camaros and Firebirds. Sorry, but the C5 interior is way nicer than any Mustang I've owned to date. I haven't had an 05+ yet, so I won't speak to that.

Chris