Strippt88
New Member
Hmmm... hydrolic disc>drum, ... guess thats why, when stopping real moving weight, semi tractors and locomotives use drum designs.
MOD FIGHT!!!!!
PERFECT EXAMPLE...
TrboFox.
511 rwhp and 622ftlbs of torque. show me a 331 with a roots or a centrifugal thats approaching that rwhp and that tq. then look how flat the torque curve is on the turbo motor
Brian,
Hopefully that didn't offend you. The "brainwashed" part was just me teasing you.
Still, from your last post it seems clear you do not understand drum brakes. Ever had one apart? It's not "mechanical." Drums still use hydraulic pressure just like discs do.
I'll agree that when new, in hard braking circumstances that locking up the rear wheels on a drum brake set up is completely possible.....but it takes very little wear and just a few hot stops with the shoes to "glaze" them over greatly reducing their effectiveness. They're effectiveness is also reduced by the encounter of dirt/water/oil picked up on the surface of the ash vault in comparison to disk.About the E-brake, I never had any problem locking up the rears when I had a drum setup, at least not with adequate pads. They have to be replaced every once in a while you know? In fact, only after I switched to a Baer Disc setup did I have issues with my e-brake. It seems drums do a better job when the linkage is mechanical than discs do. Also, quite contradictory to your point about e-brakes being better with discs, many OEM vehicles use an entirely separate drum specifically for the E-brake. I'm not sure if any of the mustangs did. I've never had their brakes apart.
You give the stock rear drum set up more credit than it deserves. If you're pressing the brake pedal hard enough to lock up the rear brakes, then the front ones are guaranteed to be sliding. The brake system as a whole is much harder to manipulate with drums out back than they are with 4 wheel disk. If you're to the point where you're locking up the front wheels on a stock Fox body, that doesn't mean the rear brakes are working at their full potential, but they almost certainly are with full wheel disk.The bottom line is, are your drums capable of locking the rear tires up at any point while you are braking? Can you keep them on the verge of lock-up throughout the stop? If the answer is yes, then they are just as efficient as any other braking system. At least in a straight line braking situation on dry pavement. I would always recommend a proportioning valve so that you can tune the hydraulic pressure for front and rear brakes independently of each other.
Lastly, when I spoke of surface area, I was referring to brake cooling. Since the pads and inner surface of the drums are not exposed to free flowing air like the disc brakes are, they will not cool as quickly. They will overheat, and after repeated stops, the drum brakes will fade much more quickly than discs will. At some point you will not be able to lock up the tires with the drums, even though you still could if you had a disc system. Continued use of the drum system would result in overheated brake fluid/ and mechanical parts connecting to the lines that could cause line failure. Even without failure, when the brake fluid gets hot enough, it boils. Liquid brake fluid does not compress, but gaseous brake fluid does. Hence, when you step on the pedal the gas compresses instead of pressuring the system enough to stop the car.
Tell ya what, when you install a complex air brakes system pumping 120psi of compressed air into each line and 18-wheels on your Stang, then we’ll talk.Hmmm... hydrolic disc>drum, ... guess thats why, when stopping real moving weight, semi tractors and locomotives use drum designs.
No fight...just a friendly difference of opinion. We've had em before. Totally guilty on the derailing though....but then again....considering the title, this thread was doomed from the start.MOD FIGHT!!!!!
Shhhhhh.....don’t post.bentley429 said:Gearbanger go back to the 4.6 forums.
considering the title, this thread was doomed from the start.
In your earlier example you talk about turbo guys seeing full boost by 3,500RPM. The problem with that, is that those same set ups only start making boost at 3,000-3,200RPM. The power may be great, but the curve itself is short and violent. If you choose to size the turbo accordingly to come on during the early ends of the power curve, top end performance suffers. There is no do-it-all power adder.
Yes, I fully understand drum brakes. I realize they use hydraulic wheel cylinders to actuate the shoes. What I meant by "mechanical" in my argument was the mechanical advantage (IE from a leverages standpoint) that the clamping of the rotor has from the outer edges that the disk set up has over the pressing inward on the drum set up of the drum set up.
You give the stock rear drum set up more credit than it deserves.
If you're pressing the brake pedal hard enough to lock up the rear brakes, then the front ones are guaranteed to be sliding.
The brake system as a whole is much harder to manipulate with drums out back than they are with 4 wheel disk.
I like my power curve like i like my women, short and voilent, so thats pretty convienient
all this talk about brakes... got me thinking, so i ordered a set of drums to replace the crappy front disc ive been using
Talk about worlds apart...this thread went from how do i beat a 70k+ sports car with a car that only cost 14K new 2 decades ago,
+1 to putting locomotive brakes on your mustang to beat a z06!!