Have you guys seen this?

[Gearbanger 101]

And certainly don't go reading wikipedia, a free internet encyclopedia that can be edited by anyone with an email address and 2 minutes free time, and then spout it off on message boards as "internet sources" and expect other posters, who are also knowledgable with the interwebs, to be impressed.

According to internet resources, my dong weighs approximately 14 pounds.

Adam

I can only speculate that you're talking about the figures I posted with regards to the Viper engine weight? I can also only speculate that since you've assumed I found it on Wikipedia, that you’ve chosen to look them up yourself in attempts to "prove me wrong" by providing a figure of your own....


....but have come up dry and are unable to post anything to the contrary?

In which case...I still have an actual engine weight number to show for my efforts and all you seem to be able to do is talk about your alleged "14lb dong"....would that be a fair assessment?


You know fellas, it’s one thing when you prove your point with logic and fact to back your argument, but it screams desperation when all you can do is attempt to downgrade someone else’s with senseless banter and misdirection. I almost felt like were were in Fight Club here for a moment?



...so, did any of that sound like I was "losing my cool?

 

[nmcgrawj]

Interesting. Again, I think you guys are great but some of your logic is a bit off?

Mindset #1 Putting STRICTLY Ford in a Ford = bad idea!

Mindset #2 Putting chevy in a Ford = bad idea!

Which concept is close minded? Oh, that's right, one that does not agree with YOUR viewpoint.

Moral: One that does not believe in brand loyalty is just as close- minded as one that does. Why? Because this, unlike gravity is a debatable preference.

LOL at this BS. Being OPEN to motor swaps from GM/Mopar into a mustang is not being close minded. People on this side of the line appreciate the car for what it is...not because of what it has inside. A nice looking mustang with american power under the hood gets a thumbs up. Period. You're acting like we would go to a car show and take away points for an 03 cobra still running its stock motor setup. Or a 94-95 still running a 5.0 or even a 351.

Appreciating things that are different does not mean u dont appreciate things that are common.

I looked around for some Viper stuff because it got me interested. The fastest Vipers I could find made about 1900rwhp, and run about mid to high 7s in the quarter. There are small block Mustangs (even 302 block mustangs) running low 7s all the way down to mid 6s.

Kurt

I didnt know Viper's were built to be 1/4 mile monsters

I also didnt know that this guy's goal was to build the fastest 1/4 mile sn95

I also realize that if a motor from Toyota was able to get our car to run low 6's....it would then qualify to be in the car because its fast?


I coulda sworn that any car company has engines that can acheive the goals this guy has set forth. Even his past motor combinations could have reached it. So again...what is the point of posting the "fastest" setups?


This isnt about being the fastest. Its not about being the cheapest.

I can only speculate that you're talking about the figures I posted with regards to the Viper engine weight? I can also only speculate that since you've assumed I found it on Wikipedia, that you’ve chosen to look them up yourself in attempts to "prove me wrong" by providing a figure of your own....


....but have come up dry and are unable to post anything to the contrary?

In which case...I still have an actual engine weight number to show for my efforts and all you seem to be able to do is talk about your alleged "14lb dong"....would that be a fair assessment?


You know fellas, it’s one thing when you prove your point with logic and fact to back your argument, but it screams desperation when all you can do is attempt to downgrade someone else’s with senseless banter and misdirection. I almost felt like were were in Fight Club here for a moment?



...so, did any of that sound like I was "losing my cool?

I could care less what the actual weight of the dodge motor is. He posted up his total weight and how its distributed. END OF DISCUSSION. You can choose to babble on and on about the weight you think the engine is but the point is at the end of the day, his car his lighter than most verts here. And it probably is distributed better.

If u wanna call him a liar then you are the one who has to prove it.

 

[revhead347]

I didnt know Viper's were built to be 1/4 mile monsters

I also didnt know that this guy's goal was to build the fastest 1/4 mile sn95

I also realize that if a motor from Toyota was able to get our car to run low 6's....it would then qualify to be in the car because its fast?

Well, two of the questions that came up were how much power can you make with a Viper motor vs. a sbf, and what is the weight comparison. So I got interested in answering one of the questions. The SBF clearly can deliver more power. However, one might argue that the Viper motor can deliver more power on pump gas. But then again, it can't deliver more power on pump gas than a 460 based Ford, or a big block Chevy. And to answer your question, why else would anyone want over 1000hp for a car other than to drag race it. That kind of power has almost no other use. To answer your other question, there are Toyota engines that will get our cars into the 6s. Just look at the Streetglow Toyotas.

And I have also found lots of useful information on Wikipedia. Given the way it is collected, it's surprisingly accurate.

Kurt

 

[nmcgrawj]

Well, two of the questions that came up were how much power can you make with a Viper motor vs. a sbf, and what is the weight comparison. So I got interested in answering one of the questions. The SBF clearly can deliver more power. However, one might argue that the Viper motor can deliver more power on pump gas. But then again, it can't deliver more power on pump gas than a 460 based Ford, or a big block Chevy. And to answer your question, why else would anyone want over 1000hp for a car other than to drag race it. That kind of power has almost no other use. To answer your other question, there are Toyota engines that will get our cars into the 6s. Just look at the Streetglow Toyotas.

And I have also found lots of useful information on Wikipedia. Given the way it is collected, it's surprisingly accurate.

Kurt

My point was the viper platform isnt aimed to excel at drag racing. The Z06 platform isnt either. Neither is the Ford GT. Just trying to be clear that your comparisons of figures is an apples to apples type of thing. You said:

I looked around for some Viper stuff because it got me interested. The fastest Vipers I could find made about 1900rwhp, and run about mid to high 7s in the quarter. There are small block Mustangs (even 302 block mustangs) running low 7s all the way down to mid 6s.

Would that 1900rwhp made by the viper get those mustangs to run low 7s and mid 6s? If it does then that makes even more sense why people use the mustang chassis for drag racing.

It just doesnt make sense to compare 1/4 mile times without referencing the HP needed to get there.

And even when entering this discussion of "the fastest" or "the most powerful".....cost arguments are left at the door. Any route will cost a ton.


2 Questions:

1.) Will the twin turbo viper motor provide more than enough power that HE wants? Yes.

2.) Did he pick up a ton of weight after his modifications? No.



There is always going to be someone faster...someone who did it for less....big deal.

 

[revhead347]

My point was the viper platform isnt aimed to excel at drag racing. The Z06 platform isnt either. Neither is the Ford GT. Just trying to be clear that your comparisons of figures is an apples to apples type of thing. You said:



Would that 1900rwhp made by the viper get those mustangs to run low 7s and mid 6s? If it does then that makes even more sense why people use the mustang chassis for drag racing.

It just doesnt make sense to compare 1/4 mile times without referencing the HP needed to get there.

And even when entering this discussion of "the fastest" or "the most powerful".....cost arguments are left at the door. Any route will cost a ton.


2 Questions:

1.) Will the twin turbo viper motor provide more than enough power that HE wants? Yes.

2.) Did he pick up a ton of weight after his modifications? No.



There is always going to be someone faster...someone who did it for less....big deal.

Very good points. It generally takes at least 2500hp to get a race weight Mustang into the 6s. You can get a car into the 6s with less hp, but most drag categories that are that fast, like drag radial, pro, and outlaw require the car be a certain weight. There are some front wheel drive 4 bangers in the high 7s (most are in the 8s) which obviously have a lot less hp, but the weight requirements are a lot lower. I gather that the primary advantage of that 510 cid Viper engine is that he can get more power on pump gas than other applications. I don't have any problem with anyone putting whatever engine in whatever car they want. I just don't think this is the most affordable option. I think he would have been better off putting a big block Chevy in there or something like that. V8s are more efficient at producing power than similiar sized 10 cylinder engines.

Kurt

 

[Black95GTS]

I can only speculate that you're talking about the figures I posted with regards to the Viper engine weight? I can also only speculate that since you've assumed I found it on Wikipedia, that you’ve chosen to look them up yourself in attempts to "prove me wrong" by providing a figure of your own....


....but have come up dry and are unable to post anything to the contrary?

In which case...I still have an actual engine weight number to show for my efforts and all you seem to be able to do is talk about your alleged "14lb dong"....would that be a fair assessment?


You know fellas, it’s one thing when you prove your point with logic and fact to back your argument, but it screams desperation when all you can do is attempt to downgrade someone else’s with senseless banter and misdirection. I almost felt like were were in Fight Club here for a moment?



...so, did any of that sound like I was "losing my cool?

Well, I had to look up the weight, because you posted no sources for your information. For the second time you made statements and provided no source for your info. If you read that Wikipedia entry the verbage you used is extremely similar.

I also saw a lot of numbers, +/- percents, approximates, etc etc, no actual quantifiable data. Logic, that is not. Logic would sound something like: Well Adam, its got 2 more cylinders, all else being equal, of course its heavier. .

So if I'm wrong, where are you getting these figures from? The off-color "dong" joke was to illustrate my point, that stating a fact and sighting "internet sources" as basis is worthless.

http://www.delaneyautodesign.com/showArticle.cfm?id=11

This guy stuffed a Viper V10 into a Charger, and he says it weighs 550 pounds.

If you go here: Ford Racing Performance Parts [] you can see the SB 351 AL block weighs about 124 pounds. I can't find what the Dodge counter part weighs. Applying LOGIC, worst case scenario the Viper block weighs 125% more because it has 125% the cylnders, making it 155 pounds. So that is a 31 pound difference. And its probably more like 15 pounds because the front and rear of the block are the same regardless of cylinder size, and adding more cylinders is adding holes, not solid slugs of metal.

So now we look at piston weight. The difference here is negligble, as the Viper will have smaller pistons, but there will be 10 of them, while the SBF will have larger pistons, but only 8. The stock 98 viper engine is 4 x 3.87 bore to stroke, to get the SBF to something like a 418 requires a 4.125 x 4.03. We could through all the parts like this ad nauseum.

So based on the above, in my opinion, calling it a "boat anchor" and claiming big weight savings is crap. Unless you come up with actual data and make me look stupid, in which case I will acknowledge my stubborness as folly. And if the guy used a DART block SBF, then the Viper engine would be lighter.

Adam

 

[revhead347]

If you are looking to make a Ford motor with that kind of power, you are going to need something like an Iron Eagle block. The block alone weighs 194lbs. So you are probably into the range of 450+ lbs when it's all said and done. You could save some weight by going to an aluminum block, but those start at around $5200. I am finding it hard to believe that something like what an engine weighs is hard to find on the internet. But I am having trouble myself.

Kurt

 

[Pokageek]

..Applying LOGIC, worst case scenario the Viper block weighs 125% more because it has 125% the cylnders, making it 155 pounds. So that is a 31 pound difference. And its probably more like 15 pounds because the front and rear of the block are the same regardless of cylinder size, and adding more cylinders is adding holes, not solid slugs of metal.

...[/U]

Adam

Wait, if the Viper block weighed 125% MORE.. it would weigh 279#. I am not trying to split hairs here but just a little clarity and humor. Yea but we know what you meant. :SNSign:

 

[Adam95GT]

talking about 1/4 mile guys what about tim lynches proline engine... closer to a chevy then a ford

people get all bent out of shape about this topic... and most know... if it was in a chevy car they would call it a chevy engine... but since its in his mustang oh it must be ford

 

[revhead347]

Proline engines is like 3 miles from my house. To be honest with you, when you get an engine of that size there isn't a single part on them that could be traced back to Ford or Chevy anyway.

Kurt

 

[Adam95GT]

Well whats the point of the argument then... everyone mods their car? I guess this is the point i have tryed to make. A hunk of metal can be drilled anyway someone wants it to be. So why throw a fit when someone puts a different engine in their car??? i dont care what you put under the hood of a mustang.... its still a mustang.:Zip2:

I do have a little special spot for our sn95s... but still

 

[Adam95GT]

Proline engines is like 3 miles from my house. To be honest with you, when you get an engine of that size there isn't a single part on them that could be traced back to Ford or Chevy anyway.

Kurt

pretty sure it has a chevvy bell housing bolted to it. and chevy style sonny lenord heads

Edit:
"Proline Power" Whats new in 2009 for Tim Lynch - Street Legal TV Forums

 

[revhead347]

I don't know much about the heads, but I know he runs a powerglide, which is a Chevy transmission. Not sure if it's a full aftermarket housing, or an original Chevy casting that has been shaved and bolted to a Ford bellhousing.

Kurt

 

[Black95GTS]

Wait, if the Viper block weighed 125% MORE.. it would weigh 279#. I am not trying to split hairs here but just a little clarity and humor. Yea but we know what you meant. :SNSign:

blah blah... it would weigh "125% of the sbf block" that make you happy grammar police?

Adam

 

[nmcgrawj]

Well whats the point of the argument then... everyone mods their car? I guess this is the point i have tryed to make. A hunk of metal can be drilled anyway someone wants it to be. So why throw a fit when someone puts a different engine in their car??? i dont care what you put under the hood of a mustang.... its still a mustang.:Zip2:

I do have a little special spot for our sn95s... but still

 

[Pokageek]

blah blah... it would weigh "125% of the sbf block" that make you happy grammar police?

Adam

Hehe, no worries.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Will i get kicked out of the 94-95 section if i do a LSX swap?