Engine Water Pump Replacement Question

[boostfrk]

Getting ready to swap the water pump in my 90 5.0. I was going to get the stud kit as suggested (Dorman 23744), but the stud kit only has 2 studs and 1 bolt. The water pump itself has many more bolts/studs than that.

What gives?

I need to get it swapped this weekend so I don't really have the time to wait for the kit from TotallyStainless or LMR.

 

[Noobz347]

The rest of the bolts are common hardware. You can get them from any parts store.

 

[95Vert383AOD]

LOL Dorman.... "Fixes Problems"...(Need a moment) OK continuing on....


The only "Problem Bolts" are the ones that cross the water passages. So apparently the only bolts they supply are the ones that are prone/ known to fail.

 

[boostfrk]

The rest of the bolts are common hardware. You can get them from any parts store.

Are new bolts necessary or just good insurance, or a waste of time?

 

[Noobz347]

Are new bolts necessary or just good insurance, or a waste of time?

Good insurance. Generally, I clean up the old bolts with a wire wheel and replace the ones that are hagard looking, with stainless. If I can't find stainless, I use regular ole' grade 8.

 

[95Vert383AOD]

Hagard bolts = 3 Bolts you find in the Dorman kit.

 

[Noobz347]

Usually, only one of the two studs that come in that kit are hagard. I recall there being one that gets changed all the time. I think they sell them in that kit that way because they're odd-balls and difficult to find.

 

[boostfrk]

Good insurance. Generally, I clean up the old bolts with a wire wheel and replace the ones that are hagard looking, with stainless. If I can't find stainless, I use regular ole' grade 8.

I know I'm really going out on a limb here, but any idea what sizes the remaining bolts are?

 

[Noobz347]

I might have that answer... gimme a few to dig around.

 

[Noobz347]

I thought I was going to have to wait till this evening to get it. My FTP is playing games.

*All bolts are 5/16"-18

Water pump:
4 bolts - 3 1/4"
2 bolts - 4 1/4"
2 bolts - 1 1/4"
1 bolt - 2 1/4"

Additional timing cover bolts:
2 bolts - 2 1/4"
2 bolts - 2 1/2"

These are measure from underneath the head to the end of the bolt and NOT from the top of the head. Just the shank.

 

[boostfrk]

Thanks Noobz, that's awesome information.

I've got nearly everything apart and I'm down to removing the water pump itself. I've got every bolt loose (I think) except for the (2) that are on the passenger side straddling a water jacket. Seems a lot of times these bolts are caked into the block from corrosion, expansion/contraction, etc. They are certainly not coming loose as easily as the other bolts/studs did, and of course I don't want to apply too much torque and snap them. I don't have any means to tap a new set of threads into the block, not to mention I wasn't planning on removing the harmonic balancer, timing cover, etc. If these bolts snap I'm going to have to remove all those parts and that'll make this few hour job into a few day job.

I've soaked it in PB Blaster, but without the threads showing (since they go into the block), I suspect it isn't doing much. Do I try and heat the block with a torch right where the bolt enters the block? Do I keep soaking in PB Blaster and then just try to loosen the bolts, and if they snap they snap?

What options do I have here?

 

[Noobz347]

I have heated the hardware around water pump bolts for removal before. I can remember turning on one and it feeling just... WRONG. I heated the bolt itself (best I could) without heating up everything around it. I put heat on the bosses too (where I could). They eventually did come out and the one I was worried worried about did have a twist in it and was pretty corroded.

 

[boostfrk]

I've heard MAPP gas is the best option as it gets hotter than propane. Looks like I may head to Lowes to find a MAPP gas kit.

 

[srtthis]

I thought I was going to have to wait till this evening to get it. My FTP is playing games.

*All bolts are 5/16"-18

Water pump:
4 bolts - 3 1/4"
2 bolts - 4 1/4"
2 bolts - 1 1/4"
1 bolt - 2 1/4"

Additional timing cover bolts:
2 bolts - 2 1/4"
2 bolts - 2 1/2"

These are measure from underneath the head to the end of the bolt and NOT from the top of the head. Just the shank.

i gotta get a few more of them for my car in stainless soon. thanks for this one!

 

[boostfrk]

Got the damn bolts loose. I bought a MAPP gas kit from Lowes. I put heat on it, spray with PB Blaster, wait 30 seconds, slightly tighten the bolt, then try to loosen it, wipe away the PB Blaster, then repeat.

After about 5-6 iterations the bolts finally spun loose and came out.

I went from sick to my stomach to near elation when those bolts came out. Talk about being in a pickle. **** me.

One question. In using the heat against the block I managed to burn up the portions of the timing cover to block gasket that stick out. Do I need to be concerned if the gasket actually in between these two mating surfaces has been compromised?

I'll be making a how-to/writeup on water pump replacement when I'm done. I'll make sure to include the information Noobz provided (with credit of course) if he doesnt' have an issue with that.

 

[jrichker]

I'll be making a how-to/writeup on water pump replacement when I'm done. I'll make sure to include the information Noobz provided (with credit of course) if he doesnt' have an issue with that.

You're a little late on that one...

This has been around for years...


Take a cardboard box, & turn it upside down. Count the number of bolts that hold the water pump on, don’t forget to count the 4 funny looking studs too. Poke a hole in the box for each bolt/stud. Arrange the holes in a circular formation, and mark the box at the 12:00 point. When you remove a water pump bolt, put it in one of the holes in the box according to where it came out of the water pump. When you are done, all bolts will be arranged it the exact same order and position that you removed them from the water pump. That makes re-installing them easy, no wondering where does this bolt go.

A long shank tap should be used to chase the dirt & corrosion out of the original threads before you reassemble everything. Cleaning the threads will help prevent the bolts from seizing next time (yes, there will be a next time).

A word about the links, if they don’t work, do a search on the part number (P/N). MSC updates their catalog regularly, and the pages may change, but the part numbers don’t.

Long shank 5/16” taps . The prices have gone up at a rate that matches the cost of gasolne. Ouch! However, there are few things that can clean out the threads as good as the proper tap.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=267 5/16” pulley tap, 6” shank P/N 04801189 price $33.71

OR second choice, will not clean all the bottom threads unless you grind the end of the tap.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=266 extension tap, 6” reduced diameter shank P/N 04701181 $38.28

Use lots of antiseize on the bolts to protect them from corrosion and make them easier to remove next time.

See http://totallystainless.net/totally.html for replacement stainless steel bolts. Last time I checked, they didn't have the studs. Nice folks, very into cars of all types. They have all kinds of stainless fasteners for almost every car. The prices are very reasonable, less than $20 for the water pump kit without the studs.


The studs are a Motormite item available at your local Advance Discount auto Parts store.

Motormite Water Pump Stud Kits for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury cars and trucks w/3.8L, 4.6L, 5.0L, 5.8L.

Part Number: 23744

 

[boostfrk]

Guess I was thinking of one with pictures, step by step procedure...

 

[Noobz347]

One question. In using the heat against the block I managed to burn up the portions of the timing cover to block gasket that stick out. Do I need to be concerned if the gasket actually in between these two mating surfaces has been compromised?

If you didn't take the timing cover bolts loose then you'll probably be just fine. The surrounding metals should have absorbed the majority of the heat and if there's no air in there, the gasket material can't burn.

 

[boostfrk]

If you didn't take the timing cover bolts loose then you'll probably be just fine. The surrounding metals should have absorbed the majority of the heat and if there's no air in there, the gasket material can't burn.

Timing cover bolts weren't touched. I was thinking along these lines so I'm glad to hear. Any benefit to putting some RTV along the outside seam, just in case?

 

[Noobz347]

Timing cover bolts weren't touched. I was thinking along these lines so I'm glad to hear. Any benefit to putting some RTV along the outside seam, just in case?

Can if you want... Sealant is not much good for keeping things IN. It's for keeping things OUT.

What I mean is, if you put sealant between two surfaces and let it cure, it keeps the fluids from entering that space. Put it on the outside and it just gets pushed aside once fluids get underneath of it. You want sealant on the pressure side or 'from' side. Not the 'to' side.