Engine Car Wont Rev Past 4/4.5k

[omarimoe]

My buddy came over today so I could set the timing on his car. (89 lx 5.0 5spd) I drove the car before timing to see how it was running and found that the car idles and runs great but once the tach hits like 4k it basically lays over and has nothing left. I feel like because of the 373 gears in the car there is now almost no usable power range. By the time you start to get on it its time to shift. Anyway the garage nombs must have stolen my timing light because its no where to be found so I couldnt even time the car. Could this be a bad dizzy? Wrong timing?

 

[mikestang63]

Could be a lot of things, of which I doubt the gears has anything to do with. All the gears do is accelerate the rpm's and move the power band up a little.

Was the cam installed advanced? What is the base and total timing. What is the setup- intake , exhaust, trans. Are the valves adjusted too tight.

 

[omarimoe]

Could be a lot of things, of which I doubt the gears has anything to do with. All the gears do is accelerate the rpm's and move the power band up a little.

Was the cam installed advanced? What is the base and total timing. What is the setup- intake , exhaust, trans. Are the valves adjusted too tight.

Not sure on the cam i believe it is a bone stock 5.0 engine. I cant check timing as my light grew legs and walked away. He has a catback, a cai on the car and the 373's other than that that car is pretty stock.

 

[mikestang63]

Not sure on the cam i believe it is a bone stock 5.0 engine. I cant check timing as my light grew legs and walked away. He has a catback, a cai on the car and the 373's other than that that car is pretty stock.

Check to see if the cats are blocked.

 

[omarimoe]

Check to see if the cats are blocked.

Car doesn't have cats they were cut out and new straight pipes welded in. Its kinda hard to tell if the car is breaking up or not but its great right up to 4-4.5k and then just falls flat on its face like it just got hit with a ton of bricks. From what I have read people have had similar problems and it was due to the pip sensor in the dizzy. Am I correct that the factory rev limiter in an a9l computer is around 6150 rpms give or take?

 

[omarimoe]

So I guess whatever my buddys car had was contagious because while I was showing a perspective buyer my car tonight it did the same thing during the test drive. I have no idea why or how my car all of a sudden just started acting up the same day my buddys did but now I really need to figure it out.

 

[jrichker]

Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.

Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.

 

[90GTFIVO]

Had the same problem recently. Adjusting the timing seemed to help.

 

[omarimoe]

Had the same problem recently. Adjusting the timing seemed to help.

Help or fix? Im going to assume its ignition related considering I just put in a 155lph pump, new filter, blew out all the lines, and cleaned the injectors less than a month ago. Only put 50miles on the car since. I'll dump the codes and try to find my timing light then report back with what I find.

 

[omarimoe]

Ok so I dumped the codes and this is what I got
Koeo. Koer
85. 21
85. 41
12. 91
93. 33
39
62
93
31
6

 

[modulistic]

haha!! damn. i recognize the 41 and 91 are running lean codes.

 

[omarimoe]

I found my dads old sunpro timing light so I checked timing. It was just under 10 btdc I bumped it to 14 degrees and got no change. I took the car for another drive and it is definitely breaking up right around 4k. I have yet to put plugs in my car as the ones in it when I got it looked pretty good. Should i check the gap? Any help with those codes would be much appreciated. I guess the car isnt as mint as I thought it was lol.

 

[jrichker]

Ok so I dumped the codes and this is what I got
Koeo. Koer
85. 21
85. 41
12. 91
93. 33
39
62
93
31
6

First of all and most importantly, does the problem only occur on a warm engine?

Some of the codes are ones that I don't recognize - 31,39, 62 & 93.
Code 31 - (O,R,M) EVP – EVP signal is/was out of range – EVP
Code 39 - Torque converter on auto transmission problem
Code 62- AXOD (KOEO only) 3/2 circuit short to ground – Transmissions
Code 93 - Throttle linkage binding or bad ISC motor or ISC HO2S not reading Fuel control. This may relate to the code 12,you got, but I haven't seen it before.

Are you sure this is a 5.0 Mustang you are working on and not a Mazda? Did you miscount some of the flashes?

Here's what I do have test paths for...

Code 12 -Idle Air Bypass motor not controlling idle properly (generally idle too low) - IAB dirty or not working. Clean the electrical contacts with non flammable brake parts cleaner at the same time.

IAC doesn't work: look for +12 volts at the IAC red wire. Then check for continuity between the white/lt blue wire and pin 21 on the computer. The IAC connector contacts will sometimes corrode and make the IAC not work. The red wire on the IAC is always hot with the engine in run mode. The computer provides a ground for the current for the IAC. It switches the ground on and off, making a square wave with a varying duty cycle. A normal square wave would be on for 50% of the time and off for 50% of the time. When the idle speed is low, the duty cycle increases more than 50% to open the IAC more. When the engine speed is high, it decreases the duty cycle to less than 50% to close the IAC. An old-fashioned dwell meter can be used to check the change: I haven’t tried it personally, but it should work. In theory, it should read ½ scale of whatever range you set it on with a 50% duty cycle. An Oscilloscope is even better if you can find someone who has one and will help.

Recommended procedure for cleaning the IAC/IAB:
Conventional cleaning methods like throttle body cleaner aren’t very effective. The best method is a soak type cleaner used for carburetors. If you are into fixing motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles or anything else with a small carburetor, you probably have used the one gallon soak cleaners like Gunk or Berryman. One of the two should be available at your local auto parts store for $22-$29. Take the solenoid off the body and set it aside: the carb cleaner will damage some types of plastic parts. Soak the metal body in the carb cleaner overnight. There is a basket to set the parts in while they are soaking. When you finish soaking overnight, twist the stem of the IAB/IAC that sticks out while the blocker valve is seated. This removes any leftover deposits from the blocker valve seat. Rinse the part off with water and blow it dry with compressed air. The IAC/IAB should seal up nicely now. Once it has dried, try blowing through the bottom hole and it should block the air flow. Reassemble and reinstall to check it out.

Gunk Dip type carb & parts soaker:

Setting the base idle speed:
Warm the engine up to operating temperature, place the transmission in neutral, and set the parking brake. Turn off lights, A/C, all unnecessary electrical loads. Disconnect the IAC electrical connector. Remove the SPOUT plug. This will lock the ignition timing so that the computer won't change the spark advance, which changes the idle speed. Note the engine RPM: use the mechanical adjustment screw under the throttle body to raise or lower the RPM until you get the 600 RPM mark +/- 25 RPM. A wild cam may make it necessary to increase the 600 RPM figure to 700 RPM or possibly a little more to get a stable idle speed.
Changing the mechanical adjustment changes the TPS, so you will need to set it.

When you are satisfied with the results, turn off the engine, and re-install the SPOUT and reconnect the IAC. The engine should idle with the range of 650-750 RPM without the A/C on or extra electrical loads. A wild cam may make this figure somewhat higher.

An engine that whose idle speed cannot be set at 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected has mechanical problems. Vacuum leaks are the #1 suspect in this case. A vacuum gauge will help pinpoint both vacuum leaks and improperly adjusted valves. A sticking valve or one adjusted too tight will cause low vacuum and a 5"-8" sweep every time the bad cylinder comes up on compression stroke. An extreme cam can make the 600 RPM set point difficult to set. Contact your cam supplier or manufacturer to get information on idle speed and quality


Code 21 – ECT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ECT sensor.
Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the ECT can be in error. Warm the engine up until you get good hot air from the heater and then dump the codes again.

The ECT sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the temperature gauge. They are different animals. The ECT sensor is normally located it the passenger side front of the engine in the water feed tubes for the heater.

The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same

ACT & ECT test data:

Use Pin 46 on the computer for ground for both ECT & ACT to get most accurate readings.

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. At 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. At 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer.

Voltages may be measured across the ECT/ACT by probing the connector from the rear. A pair of safety pins may be helpful in doing this. Use care in doing it so that you don't damage the wiring or connector.

Here's the table :

50 degrees F = 3.52 v
68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61
212 degrees F = .47 v
230 degrees F = .36 v
248 degrees F = .28 v

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.

50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms
212 degrees F = 2.07 K ohms
230 degrees F = 1.55 K ohms
248 degrees F = 1.18 k ohms

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
(website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg


Code 41 or 91 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Revised 29-Sep-2013 to add back in a clogged crossover tube as cause for code 41

Code 41 is a RH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 91 is the LH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

Code 172 is the RH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 176 is the LH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.

Disconnect the O2 sensor from the harness and use the body side O2 sensor harness as the starting point for testing. Do not measure the resistance of the O2 sensor , you may damage it. Resistance measurements for the O2 sensor harness are made with one meter lead on the O2 sensor harness and the other meter lead on the computer wire or pin for the O2 sensor.

Backside view of the computer wiring connector:

87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer. Using the Low Ohms range (usually 200 Ohms) you should see less than 1.5 Ohms.

87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Dark blue/Lt green wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Dark blue/Lt green wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Dark Green/Pink wire on the computer pin 43

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 29

94-95 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 29 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 27 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 29
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 27

There is a connector between the body harness and the O2 sensor harness. Make sure the connectors are mated together, the contacts and wiring are not damaged and the contacts are clean and not coated with oil.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness.

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

Code 41 can also be due to carbon plugging the driver’s side Thermactor air crossover tube on the back of the engine. The tube fills up with carbon and does not pass air to the driver’s side head ports, Remove the tube and clean it out so that both sides get good airflow: this may be more difficult than it sounds. You need something like a mini rotor-rooter to do the job because of the curves in the tube. Something like the outer spiral jacket of a flexible push-pull cable may be the thing that does the trick.

If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.


Code 33 - Insufficient EGR flow detected.
Look for vacuum leaks, cracked vacuum lines, failed EGR vacuum regulator. Check to see if you have 10” of vacuum at the EGR vacuum connection coming from the intake manifold. Look for electrical signal at the vacuum regulator solenoid valves located on the rear of the passenger side wheel well. Using a test light across the electrical connector, it should flicker as the electrical signal changes. Remember that the computer does not source any power, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.
Check for resistance between the brown/lt green wire on the EGR sensor and pin 27 on the computer: you should have less than 1.5 ohm.

Backside view of the computer wiring connector:

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif


EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.

connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.

Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).

apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum

if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.

if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.

if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed

EGR test jig

The operation of the EGR vacuum regulator can be checked by using a test light applied across the wiring connector. Jumper the computer into self test mode and turn the key on but do not start the engine. You will hear all the actuators (including the EVR vacuum regulator) cycle. Watch for the light to flicker: that means the computer has signaled the EGR vacuum regulator successfully.

 

[omarimoe]

O2's are brand new and the iac seems to do its job (raises idle when I plug it in) I found a badly cracked plug on the number 1 cylinder and the gaps are all over the place. Im gunna get a set of plugs and see where that gets me.

 

[omarimoe]

Update new plugs installed autolite 25's and I got no change. The car still breaks up in the upper rpm range. I found a cracked plug on cylinder 1 and 5.

 

[ID89GT]

Check the fuel pressure too under load. I had similar issues and turned out to be the fuel pump. But I would go through the checklist to verify so you ain't wasting money throwing parts at it.

 

[omarimoe]

The pump is a brand new walboro 155lph pump with less than 50 miles on it. I also dont have a fuel pressure tester. Are the ones you can rent from the parts stores long enough to run inside the car to check the pressure under load? The plug wires on the car are also pretty shot. I got them with the car and some of them have burn marks from the headers. They arnt pretty but dont look bad enough to be the cause. I dont have a multimeter so i cant do all the diags therefore im kinda stuck now. When i put the plugs in today i gaped them all at .045-.050. someone suggested closing them a little bit and see if it helps at all. If i regap them and it helps would that indicate a weak ignition component like a coil, tfi or dizzy crapping out/getting old? And other than the pump what could cause the lean codes? Bad pressure regulator? it's less than 100miles old but came from advance autoparts (stock aftermarket replacement). How common is it to get a bad pump out of the box. I have run walboro's in lots of forced induction Hondas and have never had a problem with them. I'm almost ready to bring the car somewhere and have it diagnosed, it seems like every time i fix something i find something els wrong.

 

[omarimoe]

also i noticed the little round (looks like a small round oil pressure plug) on the o2 sensor harness is not connected to anything. is there something this should got to?

 

[omarimoe]

I got bored and couldn't sleep so i decided to pull my plugs back out and regap all of them a little lower at .040. I noticed that there was some non factory electrical tap and loom on the o2 sensor harness so i said what the heck pulled it all off and this is what i found. sorry for the crappy pics but at 2:30am in my driveway with my cellphone this was the best i could do lol. it looks like the insulation on the wires cracked and then the wires touched and fried themselves. could this be the cause of my o2 and lean codes? also are those 2 yellow wires supposed to combine into the one?

 

[omarimoe]

sorry to keep posting but i fixed the wires for the harness, reset the computer, took the car for a drive, and i no longer get the lean codes but the problem is still there. now i get these
KOEO KOER
85 94
85 44
12 33
93
32
considering i dont have any of my egr or smog stuff hooked up the only codes i think i really need to address at this point are the TPS(93) and 12 (idle speed control out of range). the car is still breaking up at around 4K after regapping the plugs to 0.40. what part of my ignition system should i look into next? could i have installed the dizzy one tooth off and it''s now throwing timing off? right now the car is at 14*-15* and the tfi is pretty much touching the thermostat housing.