Paint and Body Fox Body Painting 101
- Thread starter Davedacarpainter
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- Jul 7, 2005
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Calling Dave @Davedacarpainter
The door molding is coming off the car again for the 3rd time in 15 years. I have taken the metal backing off the molding a few years ago, so the molding lays flat.
My question is: Is there something better to use then just the standard 3M double sided tape. I want this to be put on and never have to worry about it again.
The door molding is coming off the car again for the 3rd time in 15 years. I have taken the metal backing off the molding a few years ago, so the molding lays flat.
My question is: Is there something better to use then just the standard 3M double sided tape. I want this to be put on and never have to worry about it again.
The 3M tape will work fine, just get an adhesion promoter wipe from 3M and wipe the mouldings and the door before you stick it down. This seems to work really nice.
- Jul 7, 2005
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Do you want a picture of the adhesion wipe’s package? I can go snag one from one of the bodymen.
- Jul 7, 2005
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That is what I used, and is currently starting to peel away from the door...and use the red-backed automotive tape instead of:
- Jul 7, 2005
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Sorry Dave, I meant didn't use the promoter. Can I just use any from an auto parts store
Sure, it’s just these little packets with a wipe would be cheaper for you is all.
It's time for another/more non-Fox Body question(s).
I will be having my '66 coupe rust bucket sandblasted in the next couple of months. I have a couple of questions I need to get out of the way before I go ahead with it.
First, is it okay to to have them blast the body panels? I've read or heard that you don't want to sandblast large body panels (doors, roof, fenders, quarters, etc.) as the risk of warpage is really high. I intend to ask them this, but wanted to get your input as well.
Second, what kind of primer would you recommend we spray on it after blasting? It will likely be sitting in this primer for a long time (a year, or two, or three). I've seen you mention on many occasions that Sikkens is the best. What would enough to prime the entire car cost me? The car will eventually be painted in the original color of Sauterne Gold (Ford paint code Z). This is a very light metallic color, so I'm sure that the color of the primer will also be important here?
Third (and last), what other prep work might I be looking into in order to ensure I don't end up letting the car rust underneath the primer?
To give you some background, I have zero experience in paint and body work. However, my father-in-law is a paint and body guy. That being said, he doesn't really speak English well enough to talk about technical things like this. He knows what he's doing, but most of his work has been on salvage cars getting them roadworthy again. He'll be helping me to at least get it in primer. I want to make sure I don't end up spraying cheap, "good enough" products on the car that I may regret later.
I will be having my '66 coupe rust bucket sandblasted in the next couple of months. I have a couple of questions I need to get out of the way before I go ahead with it.
First, is it okay to to have them blast the body panels? I've read or heard that you don't want to sandblast large body panels (doors, roof, fenders, quarters, etc.) as the risk of warpage is really high. I intend to ask them this, but wanted to get your input as well.
Second, what kind of primer would you recommend we spray on it after blasting? It will likely be sitting in this primer for a long time (a year, or two, or three). I've seen you mention on many occasions that Sikkens is the best. What would enough to prime the entire car cost me? The car will eventually be painted in the original color of Sauterne Gold (Ford paint code Z). This is a very light metallic color, so I'm sure that the color of the primer will also be important here?
Third (and last), what other prep work might I be looking into in order to ensure I don't end up letting the car rust underneath the primer?
To give you some background, I have zero experience in paint and body work. However, my father-in-law is a paint and body guy. That being said, he doesn't really speak English well enough to talk about technical things like this. He knows what he's doing, but most of his work has been on salvage cars getting them roadworthy again. He'll be helping me to at least get it in primer. I want to make sure I don't end up spraying cheap, "good enough" products on the car that I may regret later.
First question. Do you remember the hood on my blue car? Do NOT blast the large open areas like the hood, roof, decklid. That said, sandblasting in the thick metal areas (like the jamb area) or where solid body lines are probably won't cause much warping. If you can have it blasted with a different media like ground walnut shells, baking soda, etc... you can really go to town and blast everything. This other media doesn't build heat on the panel like a silica base will.
If it will just be sand used, you can go along the bodylines of the doors, fenders and quarters, just don't allow the more open, flat surface to be blasted.
Second question.There are lots of primers you can use safely and with good results. One of the easiest to use would be sherwin williams' DTM (Direct To Metal) primer. This product takes the place of a separate acid etch primer and a filler. Plus it is somewhat reasonably priced.
Etch primer alone will not provide long term corrosion protection, you'll need to top it with a couple coats of a urethane primer too.
Of course there are epoxy primers that you can spray on bare metal. Do NOT spray an epoxy over an etch primer. The etch will cause the epoxy to break down. I'm personally not a huge fan of epoxies, though some of the most well known restoration shops in the country use it with no issues.
Third question. Post haste after having any panel blasted you'll want to get it coated with one of the above. Bare metal panels need to be babied immediately after they have been stripped. Don't waste time or wait a couple days to coat them. Use gloves on your hands when touching the panels, you don't want any oils from your skin on the metal. When I had to finish stripping my deck lid after having the edges blasted, I used gloves on my hands while sanding off of the remaining paint and hung it to primer with gloves on my hands.
Plan out the coating of the panels with the blasting. Blasted in the morning, coated that night. Pay attention to weather as well. If it will be raining during the period you can get it stripped, reschedule. Moisture is your enemy at this stage.
If you find out there's rot on any of the panels after blasting, go ahead and put the primer over that area too. You can cut the rot out and fix it later.
Thanks very much! More questions...
Besides an air compressor and a paint gun, what all would I need to shoot it myself?
I ask because there is a place that does dustless blasting in Wichita Falls. I hadn't really given it much thought because I don't have a compressor right now. A place in Dallas quoted me $1100-1300 to blast the Mustang. Seems a bit steep, so I'd like to look into the dustless blasting. I would have to get the equipment to primer it, but it would save me the trouble of stripping the body panels by hand.
Also, what do I need besides the primer itself?
Activators, reducers, thinners, etc.? I looked at the DTM, and it's $90/gal. Not too bad. We have a Sherwin-Williams store in WF, but it's not the automotive version. How many gallons should I need to primer the whole car? Honestly, I'm getting lost looking at their website. So many different products.
I'll probably just buy an air compressor and gun and bring the car to our house before using the local blaster. That just seems simpler. The car is currently in my in-laws' drive way. Gotta get it out of there.
Besides an air compressor and a paint gun, what all would I need to shoot it myself?
I ask because there is a place that does dustless blasting in Wichita Falls. I hadn't really given it much thought because I don't have a compressor right now. A place in Dallas quoted me $1100-1300 to blast the Mustang. Seems a bit steep, so I'd like to look into the dustless blasting. I would have to get the equipment to primer it, but it would save me the trouble of stripping the body panels by hand.
Also, what do I need besides the primer itself?
Activators, reducers, thinners, etc.? I looked at the DTM, and it's $90/gal. Not too bad. We have a Sherwin-Williams store in WF, but it's not the automotive version. How many gallons should I need to primer the whole car? Honestly, I'm getting lost looking at their website. So many different products.
I'll probably just buy an air compressor and gun and bring the car to our house before using the local blaster. That just seems simpler. The car is currently in my in-laws' drive way. Gotta get it out of there.
I’ll chime in on the how much primer thing and give a little insight based on my project so far. I’m currently prepping my car for paint. I used a dtm primer and I really like it. It’s a high build that can be sanded. If I were to do it again, I would go the two primer method. Here is why, when blocking, you are going to bust through the primer, I’d rather just hit the lower primer than metal.
As far as how much is needed, I’d take what the pros would use on a job and add a gallon. If you’re like me, you’ll use a bunch during the learning curve.
That said, this is a very fun and cool project. You’ll enjoy it. I’d love to do a 67-68 someday.
As far as how much is needed, I’d take what the pros would use on a job and add a gallon. If you’re like me, you’ll use a bunch during the learning curve.
That said, this is a very fun and cool project. You’ll enjoy it. I’d love to do a 67-68 someday.
Ok, dustless blasting makes me paranoid. Using water to blast a panel down to bare metal seems to me to be a little problematic. Bare metal will begin to corrode immediately once exposed. You may not see it, but the chemical process begins right away. Then go through water into the mix just strikes me as counterproductive. I might be wrong, I’m not well versed in the dustless blasting system. Maybe they have some new thing that will prevent the corrosion issue.
I’ll see what I can find out, it’s about time I studied this issue. I’ll get back with you on it.
Besides the primer itself? Hardener of course, as well as a reduced.
For the first coating of the car I wouldn’t worry about putting enough to fill any issues. At most, two coats just to seal the panels off. This said, a gallon should provide coverage for this.
Spraying at home? Of course the compressor and paint gun, hose, some sort off filter that will remove water from the compressed air.
A wax and grease remover to wipe the panel in case you happen to contaminate the surface. Sand the area and wipe it to be safe.
Don’t blast the entire car at once. You won’t be able to move quick enough to effectively protect the bare metal. When it comes time for the body, unless you have it loaded on a rotisserie when you take it to the blaster. Do it in sections. Start with the engine bay, primer it, blast the roof and the top of the trunk area, primer it, etc.....
I know this sounds like a pita, and you’re right. It’s not a simple thing, but you’ll have to see it as a hobby you want to do or it’ll wear you out.
I read a little on the dustless blasting. You use a corrosion inhibitor with it and ground glass is the actual medium that does the stripping. Apparently it still will warp panels if you aren’t sure what you’re doing with it due to the pressure involved.
I also read that the clean up in the nooks and crannies is a bit of a pain.
DFW is a big place, I would probably shoot for someone that does soda blasting.
I also read that the clean up in the nooks and crannies is a bit of a pain.
DFW is a big place, I would probably shoot for someone that does soda blasting.
The problem is I don't even have a truck and trailer to move the car around. I can probably get a co-worker who does help me to bring the car up here, but I don't think I could swing multiple trips to the blaster.
I think the best option is to just bring the car up here as it is and go from there. How long would it take to remove all the paint to bare metal with a DA sander?
I think the best option is to just bring the car up here as it is and go from there. How long would it take to remove all the paint to bare metal with a DA sander?
If you can, while it’s being moved that one time get the engine bay blasted.
Stripping the eb with a da is next to impossible.
Stripping the eb with a da is next to impossible.
doesnt that stuff need to be neutralized after?
fwiw, i found aircraft stripper followed by a da and a couple wire wheels worked better for my at home use stripping the shell. obviously doesnt do a thing for rust, but for paint and body filler it worked great.
After reading your posts and thinking about it (and contemplating the $1100-1300 quote I received), I think I'm going to just concentrate on getting the car up here to WF first. Once I get it up here I'll get an air compressor so I can strip the car with a DA. I'll just get with a local blaster for any projects the DA can't tackle such as the engine bay or anything else that would take forever with the DA.
I need to buy an air compressor anyway. I've also seen cheapo sandblasting kits at HF that might fit the bill for a one-time blasting job. Plenty of options.
Thanks for your input on the primer!
I need to buy an air compressor anyway. I've also seen cheapo sandblasting kits at HF that might fit the bill for a one-time blasting job. Plenty of options.
Thanks for your input on the primer!
I tried to post at work, but the new interface is a little quirky.
I used a handheld sandblaster on a couple panels. It costs somewhere around $30 at harbor freight. It's great for cleaning the jambs of panels. It also cleans up rusted areas nicely.
Stripping the panels isn't that hard with a da, it just takes time and a bit of sandpaper.
I used a handheld sandblaster on a couple panels. It costs somewhere around $30 at harbor freight. It's great for cleaning the jambs of panels. It also cleans up rusted areas nicely.
Stripping the panels isn't that hard with a da, it just takes time and a bit of sandpaper.
