Okay, you've lost me. There's all this stuff I need to do with that washer?! Why don't the directions say anything about this?!
Engine Rebuilt 306 Cam Degreeing: 6.5 Degrees Off?
- Thread starter ZephyrEFI
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08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi Zephyr, They just- don’t. I’d called many years ago regarding this same question, response was “it’s left thicker to accommodate the differences in retaining Plate thickness”, “Sand it down with paper until it fits properly” Told them I had a Lathe- same response, I asked what the endplay tolerance was, they didn’t have one established.
Went through the same, identical thing.
If you want to chat, I’ll message my phone #.(?)
Went through the same, identical thing.
If you want to chat, I’ll message my phone #.(?)
08GT500
5 Year Member
Zephyr, First TRY the Washer on the Cam Gear and tighten the Cam Bolt to see if it does, indeed- bind. If the Bolt is tight & the Cam spins freely, you may not have to do anything but install it.
Just establish if it requires modifying first. The #1 reason they supply this is due to the Billet Gear, but serves the same function as the Torrington the Cam MFG recommends..
Best!
John
Just establish if it requires modifying first. The #1 reason they supply this is due to the Billet Gear, but serves the same function as the Torrington the Cam MFG recommends..
Best!
John
Thanks. I'm sorry, I know it's not your fault. I'm just so sick of the rabbit hole going deeper and deeper and deeper. The damn performance part companies do so much assuming that you know what to do with these parts and what's involved with them. But then they insult your intelligence with what they DO put in the directions. "install larger sprocket on the camshaft" stuff like that. Yeah, thanks. How about some information I can use, like what's this brass washer and what the hell do i do with it?! "Here buy this shiny new part, it will make your car go faster!" But then, once you have it, only then do you find out, oh wait, there's all these other parts and processes you need to make it work.
My instinct with this build has been to go stock replacement wherever possible. I didn't necessarily know what I was going to run into each time I "upgraded" something, but it seems pretty universal what happens. Let's take roller rockers for example. With pedestal mount, you need to do all this f***ing around with shims and measuring to make sure they fit right. But you don't want pedestal mount, you want STUD mount! There are SO many more options with those! Oh, but wait, you need to take your heads off and spend all this money having them modified to accept the studs. ARGH! It's never just the one part!
I'm just a bit overwhelmed and frustrated right now. I'll go back and read your post again tomorrow, and I'm sure it will go fine. Thanks again for all this.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi Zephyr, It’s OK, Man- no problem- just want to help however i can. I’ve been through all this, too- as many here have- hence; this sites purpose.. to help others from finding out the hard way & getting stuck.
People have SOLD their beloved Pony’s as they get in over their Head..
Then a jaw drop when they see their Car a Month later driving by & running great, and with all the hard work done by them, all the $$, Blood, Sweat- now Tears as one did a few simple things they just weren’t privy to.
Witnessing that is about the lowest feeling that Members feel if they can’t stop the individual from making the wrong decision..
Most Part Companies RELY on the fact you buy something, only advertising end results- not specific regarding things like this. I’ve once thought if you were to take all the words & phrases given by Mfg’s like this, were able to throw them all in a big pot on a Stove to break it all vdown to its tru element, it would be solid Gold. It’s all about Money.
Try not to stress about it, if you need to walk away- do it! When you come back, mind clear- do a few things & stop. Being angry around it leads to sacrificing goals & other negatives.
So, Focus on that Thrust Assembly, you’ll get past it no problem. Do you have a Spring compressor to install the light Springs on #1 Cylinder for your Claytest, Pushrod length checker (I imagine they’ll be 6.700’s, but variables exist. Everything after this will be straightforward, just imagine how much you will have learned once this is done!
I’ll help you where requested, as will others that are familiar with different areas. Was this super simple, everybody would be doing it! Some can’t install a spare Tire, much less do something like this!
It’s all good! -John
People have SOLD their beloved Pony’s as they get in over their Head..
Then a jaw drop when they see their Car a Month later driving by & running great, and with all the hard work done by them, all the $$, Blood, Sweat- now Tears as one did a few simple things they just weren’t privy to.
Witnessing that is about the lowest feeling that Members feel if they can’t stop the individual from making the wrong decision..
Most Part Companies RELY on the fact you buy something, only advertising end results- not specific regarding things like this. I’ve once thought if you were to take all the words & phrases given by Mfg’s like this, were able to throw them all in a big pot on a Stove to break it all vdown to its tru element, it would be solid Gold. It’s all about Money.
Try not to stress about it, if you need to walk away- do it! When you come back, mind clear- do a few things & stop. Being angry around it leads to sacrificing goals & other negatives.
So, Focus on that Thrust Assembly, you’ll get past it no problem. Do you have a Spring compressor to install the light Springs on #1 Cylinder for your Claytest, Pushrod length checker (I imagine they’ll be 6.700’s, but variables exist. Everything after this will be straightforward, just imagine how much you will have learned once this is done!
I’ll help you where requested, as will others that are familiar with different areas. Was this super simple, everybody would be doing it! Some can’t install a spare Tire, much less do something like this!
It’s all good! -John
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Yeah, in regards to the Pedestal Mount Rockers & it’s, 5/16”retaining Bolt, it’s a ROYAL pain to run an aftermarket Cam & other add on’s. IMO, Pedestals are only ok when going 100% Stock.While I say 5/16”, note Oe Rod Bolts are the MOST vulnerable part on a Fox 5.0, Block Cracking at 450HP(+/-) is #2.)There’s Shims you have to buy to slip underneath pedestal Rockers to offset Head inconsistencies. You may not have to Shim one, but the next may be off 0.030. Best to go with Screw in Studs, Guideplates like many other Mfg’s come with-Stock.
I had a Pic of a GT a guy brought in, Stock 5.0 short Block, GT40P’s & Explorer Lower, Cobra upper. E-303 Cam, 1.7 Rockers. Put it together, with an SCT 4 Bank Chip. “It won’t rev above 3,500RPM’s”. So I took a Valve cover off, saw this...
He’d run the Stock Springs & Exhaust Rotators, e-303 Cam lift-1.6 R.R.= 0.498. Add 1.7 Rockers, lift is 0.527. Stock Explorer Springs Coilbind @ around 0.450 Lift., ironically- Pedestal mounts & no bent Pushrods, but Lifter wear, Rockers, Guide wear, Seals & Cam Lobe wear. Etc.- looked about 200K old.
He put < 50 Miles on it & replaced 1,000$ worth of 02’s, EGR, Distributor, MAF, CTS (Both?!), in an attempt to fix the issue, made no difference.you can see why.
I’d replaced the Springs, TrickFlow Drop retainers to gain clearance for 0.498 lift, 1.6 Ratio Rockers, Shimmed them for 125lbs on Seat, Viton Seals,(did this with Heads ON) he wouldn’t spring for new Guides, and had BBK’s not made for GT40’s, Plug Wires frying in the Headers, had to be 1/2 Qt.of grungy Oil inside the upper Intake from Oil airborne from OE Cover line to TB. He also siliconed the PCV opening Shut.
One by one, everything replaced, stock MAF Calibrated to 19lb Injectors, w/24lb Injectors & Drowned the the Cats & Mufflers with too much Fuel. When I’d shimmed all the Pedestals, correctly- Compression jumped to 180lbs, near dead- every Cylinder vs 140-150 lbs before taking it apart. It had a mismatched 75mm TB, to a 55mm elbow, 60mm MAF, Pipe exited the Fenderwell, no Air Cleaner...a real “Mutt”.
Vacuum leaks & misrouting, repaired it all. It started spitting out Muffler &
Cat Ceramic out of the Tailpipes once I’d fired it off, lol. Despite the bad Guides, once I’d tuned it, was a respectable 270RWHP, 288Ft/Lbs Tq, Too.Much more would blow the T-5. I was LIVID that he didn’t just tell me what he did, but i MADE him come &
Watch & Help, explaining WHY things had to work as they should.
No CPU Ground on Battery Terminal
(He spliced it & Ram it to his 700 Watt Amp for his Bass Tube. Not ONE
Block to Chassis Ground, Twisted most Grounds into one tiny wire landed on the Chassis.
Was easier to say what was wrong vs what was right. He said “I almost got it right”, I said “ALMOST, is relevant ONLY when referring to Horseshoes or Hand Grenades”..lol! But, he DID understand things as i took the time to involve him, that’s the satisfaction I enjoy.
Just need to remember, no matter how bad things seem now, someone’s ALWAYS got it WORSE than you. Like, my Cars FAST, yet there’s always somebody that’s FASTER.
You’re NOT headed here, asking questions isn’t a weakness, it shows INTELLIGENCE.
TTYL,
John
Bottom were first 2 i’d Replaced. You can see what happened to the Cam, replaced it with a C.C. 274.w/1.6 Rockers.Drop Retainers from TF solved the Coil bind issue.
What a mess this one was, lol!
I had a Pic of a GT a guy brought in, Stock 5.0 short Block, GT40P’s & Explorer Lower, Cobra upper. E-303 Cam, 1.7 Rockers. Put it together, with an SCT 4 Bank Chip. “It won’t rev above 3,500RPM’s”. So I took a Valve cover off, saw this...
He’d run the Stock Springs & Exhaust Rotators, e-303 Cam lift-1.6 R.R.= 0.498. Add 1.7 Rockers, lift is 0.527. Stock Explorer Springs Coilbind @ around 0.450 Lift., ironically- Pedestal mounts & no bent Pushrods, but Lifter wear, Rockers, Guide wear, Seals & Cam Lobe wear. Etc.- looked about 200K old.
He put < 50 Miles on it & replaced 1,000$ worth of 02’s, EGR, Distributor, MAF, CTS (Both?!), in an attempt to fix the issue, made no difference.you can see why.
I’d replaced the Springs, TrickFlow Drop retainers to gain clearance for 0.498 lift, 1.6 Ratio Rockers, Shimmed them for 125lbs on Seat, Viton Seals,(did this with Heads ON) he wouldn’t spring for new Guides, and had BBK’s not made for GT40’s, Plug Wires frying in the Headers, had to be 1/2 Qt.of grungy Oil inside the upper Intake from Oil airborne from OE Cover line to TB. He also siliconed the PCV opening Shut.
One by one, everything replaced, stock MAF Calibrated to 19lb Injectors, w/24lb Injectors & Drowned the the Cats & Mufflers with too much Fuel. When I’d shimmed all the Pedestals, correctly- Compression jumped to 180lbs, near dead- every Cylinder vs 140-150 lbs before taking it apart. It had a mismatched 75mm TB, to a 55mm elbow, 60mm MAF, Pipe exited the Fenderwell, no Air Cleaner...a real “Mutt”.
Vacuum leaks & misrouting, repaired it all. It started spitting out Muffler &
Cat Ceramic out of the Tailpipes once I’d fired it off, lol. Despite the bad Guides, once I’d tuned it, was a respectable 270RWHP, 288Ft/Lbs Tq, Too.Much more would blow the T-5. I was LIVID that he didn’t just tell me what he did, but i MADE him come &
Watch & Help, explaining WHY things had to work as they should.
No CPU Ground on Battery Terminal
(He spliced it & Ram it to his 700 Watt Amp for his Bass Tube. Not ONE
Block to Chassis Ground, Twisted most Grounds into one tiny wire landed on the Chassis.
Was easier to say what was wrong vs what was right. He said “I almost got it right”, I said “ALMOST, is relevant ONLY when referring to Horseshoes or Hand Grenades”..lol! But, he DID understand things as i took the time to involve him, that’s the satisfaction I enjoy.
Just need to remember, no matter how bad things seem now, someone’s ALWAYS got it WORSE than you. Like, my Cars FAST, yet there’s always somebody that’s FASTER.
You’re NOT headed here, asking questions isn’t a weakness, it shows INTELLIGENCE.
TTYL,
John
Bottom were first 2 i’d Replaced. You can see what happened to the Cam, replaced it with a C.C. 274.w/1.6 Rockers.Drop Retainers from TF solved the Coil bind issue.
What a mess this one was, lol!
Prob'ly wondering what happened to me. I got some car time yesterday, but I decided to use it to pull the old engine out of the car as long as I had help available.
I'll get back on the cam probably tomorrow. One possible problem though, I did already buy pedestal mount roller rockers. Trying to keep closer to stock, but still an upgrade (?). You think they're not up to the task, huh? I imagine stud mount are probably easier to adjust, but I'm really trying to mitigate snowballing costs, here.
I'll get back on the cam probably tomorrow. One possible problem though, I did already buy pedestal mount roller rockers. Trying to keep closer to stock, but still an upgrade (?). You think they're not up to the task, huh? I imagine stud mount are probably easier to adjust, but I'm really trying to mitigate snowballing costs, here.
Alright so we've got an update. I would not go so far as to say it spins FREELY with the washer installed, but I CAN turn it with the long 1/2" ratchet I've been using to do that. So, maybe we shave a little off.
To answer another question you had, yes I do have a valve spring compressor. I have not bought check springs yet. Summit's application info doesn't list any for the SBF, but they do have some. I don't know enough about different engines' valve springs to know for sure if they're all pretty much the same size or what, so I've been holding off buying some. I know Summit tends to carry things that DO fit other applications besides the ones they say they do (if they do at all). I've given them this feedback repeatedly. I sometimes end up buying elsewhere because I can't be sure with them. Looks like LMR has some though.
Also, to let you know, I do have well-matched intake parts, 70mm MAF, 65mm throttle body and EGR spacer. And my PCV is there and functioning, haha. EGR is too. My valve guides and retainers were new a couple years ago (very few miles since), and I have new spring retainers for the new beehive valve springs. I've also already bought a set of shims for the rocker arms.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hey Zephyr! II apologize for not getting back to you earlier. I’d figured you needed a breather on the valvetrain & needed some time to think. What I’d have of done- appears I was correct in that assumption, anyway, lol.
BTW, wanted to mention, I’d missed an integral comment in an earlier text, below a Pic.you posted quite a while back in our conversation. That cleared up a concern lingering I had in mind, would not have made you happy, it makes more sense, now, happy it went the way it did.
Card the Cam, Billet Cam Gear, Thrust Washer & 9 gear
“What is this washer for? Why didn't my other timing set come with one?”
“Edit: nevermind, I guess. I found my answer. Info says brass thrust washer MUST be fitted. So, I'll fit it. And my thing about requiring a torrington thrust plate was wrong. I don't have the part number I thought I Had”
..
I’d explained how to mod the Thrust Washer, that’s how most do this without a Lathe, Mill. Usage of 0-6” Dial Calipers will work fine, easy to use, inexpensive if you need to buy, easily measuring dimensions , within the 0.010-0.015 in.tolerances required. Any questions, feel free to ask. Not a bad thing asking questions, the idiocy reserved for those who DON’T ask, without a clue & needlessly go it alone- mess it up right?
About Pedestals, they are more than resilient enough to handle your application, I’d run, or witnessed modified Motors running them with 150lb Spring seat pressures, 350-375 lb full lift opening pressures on both GT40/40P & even radically ported E7 Heads.
Certainly, Stud Mount Rockers are much stronger, easier to use (Especially with Stud Girdles)- Valve Covers 4” tall are needed, more often Solid Rollers, where Rocker to Stem adjustment is frequent. your App is for Cam is the Gt40 KR Grind as previously discussed, RRPM 1,800-5,800- correct?
Grade (8) 5/16-18 in. S.H.C.S., or at least new Bolts that come with Rockers are absolutely fine with your app. You will need shorter Pushrods now, Stock one’s should fit alright, but you must check Geometry, where Valve sweep on Stems occur.
Another product will keep Shorty Header heat down, Titanium based, Black Header Wrap will also help push the OE look, too, I’ll attach a Pic below..product and Look (Pic is a 532 CI BBC, but same results).
The checker Springs need only be tall enough to close the Valves, and get you to full lift, I’ve used them on GT40P’s before with Pedestals.
I’ll text more info. Just wanted to let you know I’m listening, and will be quick to respond now.
Best! John
BTW, wanted to mention, I’d missed an integral comment in an earlier text, below a Pic.you posted quite a while back in our conversation. That cleared up a concern lingering I had in mind, would not have made you happy, it makes more sense, now, happy it went the way it did.
Card the Cam, Billet Cam Gear, Thrust Washer & 9 gear
“What is this washer for? Why didn't my other timing set come with one?”
“Edit: nevermind, I guess. I found my answer. Info says brass thrust washer MUST be fitted. So, I'll fit it. And my thing about requiring a torrington thrust plate was wrong. I don't have the part number I thought I Had”
..
I’d explained how to mod the Thrust Washer, that’s how most do this without a Lathe, Mill. Usage of 0-6” Dial Calipers will work fine, easy to use, inexpensive if you need to buy, easily measuring dimensions , within the 0.010-0.015 in.tolerances required. Any questions, feel free to ask. Not a bad thing asking questions, the idiocy reserved for those who DON’T ask, without a clue & needlessly go it alone- mess it up right?
About Pedestals, they are more than resilient enough to handle your application, I’d run, or witnessed modified Motors running them with 150lb Spring seat pressures, 350-375 lb full lift opening pressures on both GT40/40P & even radically ported E7 Heads.
Certainly, Stud Mount Rockers are much stronger, easier to use (Especially with Stud Girdles)- Valve Covers 4” tall are needed, more often Solid Rollers, where Rocker to Stem adjustment is frequent. your App is for Cam is the Gt40 KR Grind as previously discussed, RRPM 1,800-5,800- correct?
Grade (8) 5/16-18 in. S.H.C.S., or at least new Bolts that come with Rockers are absolutely fine with your app. You will need shorter Pushrods now, Stock one’s should fit alright, but you must check Geometry, where Valve sweep on Stems occur.
Another product will keep Shorty Header heat down, Titanium based, Black Header Wrap will also help push the OE look, too, I’ll attach a Pic below..product and Look (Pic is a 532 CI BBC, but same results).
The checker Springs need only be tall enough to close the Valves, and get you to full lift, I’ve used them on GT40P’s before with Pedestals.
I’ll text more info. Just wanted to let you know I’m listening, and will be quick to respond now.
Best! John
Totally fine, I really wasn't posting multiple replies because I was getting impatient either, haha! Just kept thinking of more things that might be helpful.
And it's cool you offered what to do with the washer too. To be honest, I hadn't considered needing to do that, and the more I know, the better.
It turns out, the washer was in there kitty-wampus so that's why it wasn't turning easily. I got it out, flattened it back out, and reinstalled everything, and the engine turns very smoothly. So, I decided to move on. Degreed the cam with the new timing set in there, and we get 106 degrees! (target is 107). I couldn't be happier with that!
I did get myself a pushrod measuring kit. I just figured with the heads milled a bit for compression and all the changes to the valvetrain, I was better off measuring before I bought some.
Power band is 1600-5500 according to the cam materials.
Yeah, back when I bought my headers they didn't offer that wrap in colors. Just tan, I think. So, that's worth looking at. They are coated black, so don't stand out currently. It's weird though, I don't know where I got them. I've never seen anyone else with these in black.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Summit Degree Kit should come with lightweight checking Springs you can use, aluminum Shims on the base- if needed. There’s no exact spec’s for “light” Spring tension, just very light extension Springs, pickup some at a local Hardware Store with your dimensions, it close, cut as required.
Just caught the info on the Washer & being True it fits, seriously important & great it spins good & smooth, now. Pedestal mounts will be just fine with your app, they make shins that are oddball thicknesses as well, if you need them, many are 0.015, .031, 0.062 in”. Just look at every stocker to ensure Holes are drilled in for Poshrodvpath in, no Burrs, and there’s no interference when installed.
The Wrap is available at Summit, Jegs, and AM, LMR, PitStop USA, come with steel wraps resembling Tiewraps, just need to bend in place, have a Pic, I’ll leave it in the next mash, as they limit 5. Glad you didn’t have to this, would not have made you happy. Explain it down below: Torrington’s.
Pushrods I’d try originals, first, may be ok for your purpose. Then check Geometry.m
Glad to hear you hit that 108 degree Centerline, now, the Claytest with the Solid Rockers, you can pull apart an old oneb&’stack Washers inside, reinstalling pushrod Cup, even load them with 90wt, orbEpoxy, replacing pushrod Cup & retainer
How many Crank degrees? 2?
When starting up, don’t run Synthetic decent
Oil like Penzoil, etc, drain it afterv20-25 minutes, get a few 100 on it, then go Synthetic, or your Rings May never Seat.
An issue I’d had once with the Bushing , went atorringtonmasblisted at the Bottom*:
Pedestal Mounts will work just fine, upu should be close with OE Pushrods.I’d had to remove 0.080 off a TrickFlow Billet Timing set Bushing to get it to about 0.008 endplay. Another Motor a few years prior, I’d had a Shop align Bore/Hone/undersize the Mains, Cam Bearings to run Roller Bearings, Magnaflux the Rods & Block, clearance, I installed the Rods & Crank, plastigauged it to check clearance. Mic’d the Cam Journals, Went to the Cam Bearings to Check Cam fit. All good. got irritated at the Bushing Assembly, finally bought (2) Torrington Thrust Bearing setup, since the Block was already Align Bored for Roller Cam Bearings, it seemed better off to me to keep it all Roller.Dart Block, 4 Bolt, a 15K$ Motor-Then.in 99’.
It requires use of a tall Bridgeport, you need a LOT of height because you need Machine the face of the Block. I tore the Motor back down & carefully performed the process.
I rotated my Head 45 Degrees, extended it, have a 50% Clamp to Fit the Center 4” Tube with T-Slots. Barely fit, but Did.I’ll show you a few Pic’s, had you needed run this setup, you would have been LIVID! You need to relocate the Holes, where the Cam Retainer normally sits, the Holes are relocated, interfere with the OE Bolt Holes, and it comes with Thread inserts.
All this to clear the Thrust Bearing diameter.... This is what I’d finally done..
TOP- STOCK, MIDDLE- LUNATI, BOTTOM-Comp.Cams.. Oiling slot MOST Generous on the Comp.Cam’s Assembly- that’s the one I’d used..The BluePrint is the BLOCK Mod’s, as
The Torrington’s type Bolt Circle was SLIGHTLY enlarged (Thrust Bearing Diameter to Countersink on opposite side was VERY close, couldn’t walk a MILL & move the Slot slot over with any Reliability, so- per the Blueprints, I’d relocated the BLOCK mounting Holes. As they are SO close, the Inserts actually run INTO the edge of the Stock Bolt holes, you must PLUNGE an End cutting 4 Flute Mill into the Holes edge, open them up & Tap a 3/8-16 Thread, Thread the 3/8-16 INSERT into the Block in its NEW location (only about 1/8” off from Original). The OE Bolt holes are in the center of the Inserts. The ORIGINAL Retaining Plate BOLT HOLES are still visible, PARTIALLY. (Being Why you NEED an END MILL VS a Center Drill & Drill bit, has to be RIGID when you relocate the new Hole)s, or the ORIGINAL mounting Bolt Hole will grab the Drill bit & snap it.
The INSERT threaded in is Strong enough to thread in the Bolts to the NEW location for the TORRINGTON setup. But what a PAIN in the As*! ALSO had to use a ROTARY TABLE on my MILL to aquire both proper the perch depth & clearance Diameter on the Billet Gear (Per the 1st Photo’s Print), once done, I fit it up, (a few times- although using a depth Micrometer- fit & worked perfect.. (Unlike Bronze Thrust Bushings- these needle Thrust Bearings, once installed within an incorrect/too tight of a stackup- are scrap Metal- Period
4th Photo shows the Torrington setup with the Bolts in the Thread Inserts & dual Bearings as it comes, assembled with the Bolt Inserts that solidly relocates the OE Block Holes, as seen out of the Block &
mounting Bolts attached (F.H.C.S.).
the
Pic of Header wrap in next text image..
08GT500
5 Year Member
Actually, I didn't buy a cam degreeing kit, I just bought the degree wheel since I already had the dial indicator. So, it didn't come with the springs either.
That wrap does look nice. I do have heat sleeves on my plug wire end though, and the boots are the 90 degree type instead of the normal Ford type. So, I did plan ahead a bit.
I could certainly try one of my old pushrods and see what happens. No reason not to.
But yeah, I'm glad I didn't go to the Torrington type thrust plate. Much as I like a bearing instead of a bushing, if something "requires machining", I'm probably not going to do it, haha. I don't care how much better it is! That should give you an idea of why I reacted the way I did to the idea of having to "machine" that washer. noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same deal if something "requires welding". Not doing that either, haha. If that keeps me small potatoes, I'm comfortable with that.
That wrap does look nice. I do have heat sleeves on my plug wire end though, and the boots are the 90 degree type instead of the normal Ford type. So, I did plan ahead a bit.
I could certainly try one of my old pushrods and see what happens. No reason not to.
But yeah, I'm glad I didn't go to the Torrington type thrust plate. Much as I like a bearing instead of a bushing, if something "requires machining", I'm probably not going to do it, haha. I don't care how much better it is! That should give you an idea of why I reacted the way I did to the idea of having to "machine" that washer. noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same deal if something "requires welding". Not doing that either, haha. If that keeps me small potatoes, I'm comfortable with that.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Weird- mine was this one- 70$
Wrap insulates nice, form fits well & BLACK! Lol! Machining process was more than expected, Bushing is the best idea since sliced Bread vs the Torrington setup, Unless the Blocks still in the Shop, lol!
If you ever need anything Welded, let me know if it’s a smaller piece, happy, aff to help. Father was a Steamfitter in the Nuclear Industry, want through a Welding Apprenticeship, and I’m happy to help. I also do Prototype Machining and design, Foot in most Trades, mû
M
Wrap insulates nice, form fits well & BLACK! Lol! Machining process was more than expected, Bushing is the best idea since sliced Bread vs the Torrington setup, Unless the Blocks still in the Shop, lol!
If you ever need anything Welded, let me know if it’s a smaller piece, happy, aff to help. Father was a Steamfitter in the Nuclear Industry, want through a Welding Apprenticeship, and I’m happy to help. I also do Prototype Machining and design, Foot in most Trades, mû
M
Thank you, I appreciate it! I'll keep you in the loop about my progress. Maybe I'll start a build thread here.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Zephyr, That’s Cool! Buy Summits Degree set, this one- 70$
https://www.proformparts.com/images/ePIM/original/66787_Camshaft_Degree_Wheel_Kit.pdf. - That, you’ll need.
One of the other MOST useful “Rut Roh, i
dropped it”” too(s) to acquirel is a Telescopic Magnet set, one that’s tiny & easy to get into the Plug Hole 1/8-3/16”, other with about a 1/2-3/4” Magnet.Be sure they are Rare Earth Ceramic Magnets, Most holding power & don’t repel pieces if a breakage should occur.
The flex shaft’s are good, too. Drop a Washer in a Port & you’ll be happy you bought them- very inexpensive!
A GOOD Borescope is Tantamount, you want to check the ports when assembled, 1001 other uses, AMAZON’s got quite a selection, look for 720/1080P, Romovable Screen, mag on back.Good for double checking Chambers & looking for Gasket Material in Ports you don’t want as an obstruction. An example, Felpro #1415’s vs BBK Header Gaskets....1-5/8” BBK Headers..
Top Gasket is the BBK’s. If you’re building for the OE look, do ANYTHING INSIDE you can to make the Internals FLOW.
The Titanium Wrap works well in that area, Paint almost always burns or cracks/discoloration. This form fits & it’s the right Color, too.
The Thrust Bearing ass’y Machining process is more than many expect, usually after the Motor’s already together. A Bronze Thrust Plate is a simple & effective idea, Great you’re running Beehives, you said your RPM range for the Cam is 1,600-5,500?
Do I have the right Cams listed below, they’re the Flowtech GT-40 K.R.’s, must be a Stage #1 with the 108 Deg. Lobe sep., Sites RPM ranges are notoriously wrong,, except LMR, & Cam Cards or MFG’s are always right on..
IF Stage 2, i’d of Contemplated running 1.6’s Intake, 1.7’s Exhaust with the enlarged Intake Valve, just an FYI- did it before, with a Ported Lower & if all clears- Lift & Duration-
Pushrods spec’s are 6.300. That about right?
Appears Pistons are set up well for a stout Cam, long as they’re lined up right, GT40’s should Claytest well!
2 Degree
BTW, Exhaust Ports on the Heads, Pic of motor being pulled- they look HUGE for GT40/40P’s., that what they are?
Ok, Good luck!
I’ve got a GT40P Explorer Lower i’d Ported years back, want some close ups? I’d moved, have 35 Totes of Car Parts, just found it, In a Holley box & wrapped. Let me know...
Cam Spec’s...
Flowtech KR-2 Cam......:
https://www.proformparts.com/images/ePIM/original/66787_Camshaft_Degree_Wheel_Kit.pdf. - That, you’ll need.
One of the other MOST useful “Rut Roh, i
dropped it”” too(s) to acquirel is a Telescopic Magnet set, one that’s tiny & easy to get into the Plug Hole 1/8-3/16”, other with about a 1/2-3/4” Magnet.Be sure they are Rare Earth Ceramic Magnets, Most holding power & don’t repel pieces if a breakage should occur.
The flex shaft’s are good, too. Drop a Washer in a Port & you’ll be happy you bought them- very inexpensive!
A GOOD Borescope is Tantamount, you want to check the ports when assembled, 1001 other uses, AMAZON’s got quite a selection, look for 720/1080P, Romovable Screen, mag on back.Good for double checking Chambers & looking for Gasket Material in Ports you don’t want as an obstruction. An example, Felpro #1415’s vs BBK Header Gaskets....1-5/8” BBK Headers..
Top Gasket is the BBK’s. If you’re building for the OE look, do ANYTHING INSIDE you can to make the Internals FLOW.
The Titanium Wrap works well in that area, Paint almost always burns or cracks/discoloration. This form fits & it’s the right Color, too.
The Thrust Bearing ass’y Machining process is more than many expect, usually after the Motor’s already together. A Bronze Thrust Plate is a simple & effective idea, Great you’re running Beehives, you said your RPM range for the Cam is 1,600-5,500?
Do I have the right Cams listed below, they’re the Flowtech GT-40 K.R.’s, must be a Stage #1 with the 108 Deg. Lobe sep., Sites RPM ranges are notoriously wrong,, except LMR, & Cam Cards or MFG’s are always right on..
IF Stage 2, i’d of Contemplated running 1.6’s Intake, 1.7’s Exhaust with the enlarged Intake Valve, just an FYI- did it before, with a Ported Lower & if all clears- Lift & Duration-
Pushrods spec’s are 6.300. That about right?
Appears Pistons are set up well for a stout Cam, long as they’re lined up right, GT40’s should Claytest well!
2 Degree
BTW, Exhaust Ports on the Heads, Pic of motor being pulled- they look HUGE for GT40/40P’s., that what they are?
Ok, Good luck!
I’ve got a GT40P Explorer Lower i’d Ported years back, want some close ups? I’d moved, have 35 Totes of Car Parts, just found it, In a Holley box & wrapped. Let me know...
Cam Spec’s...
Flowtech KR-2 Cam......:
- Intake Duration @ .050" Tappet Lift: 218*
- Exhaust Duration @ .050" Tappet Lift 224*
- Intake Gross Valve Lift: .555" (1.60)
- Exhaust Gross Valve Lift: .536" (1.60)
- Lobe Separation: 110*
- RPM Range: 2300-6300
- Flowtech KR1 Cam....................
- Intake Duration @ .050" Tappet Lift: 214*
- Exhaust Duration @ .050" Tappet Lift 218*
- Intake Gross Valve Lift: .565" (1.60)
- Exhaust Gross Valve Lift: .555" (1.60)
- Lobe Separation: 108*
- RPM Range: 1800-5800 (?)
- CHEERS!! John
Attachments
Sorry for the delay, I was off on a trip and stuff. I'm back working on it now. I'll get you those exact specs later. The heads have had some port work done. I am looking at getting porting done on my lower intake too.
My deadline for getting the engine in and running is 2 weeks from last Friday. So time is getting short. I started the checks/adjustments for the valvetrain yesterday. The order of tests, I figured should be: piston to valve, pushrod measurement, lifter preload, then rocker arm geometry. I went to install everything (all new except the head castings & valves), and I thought it would work okay to use some of my old pushrods to check piston to valve clearance. I haven't ordered new ones since I haven't measured for them yet. Went to do that, thinking my old pushrods would, if anything be too long, BUT, it turned out, they are too SHORT! I was very confused by this. Old and new lifters are the same size, and the heads have been milled twice. I checked with my new Scorpion pedestal roller rockers, as well as with the original rockers. Still too short. How can this be? Do engine blocks vary in deck height?! I know this is the new/seasoned shortblock vs. my old original engine, so that's a big difference from before. Still confuses me though.
My deadline for getting the engine in and running is 2 weeks from last Friday. So time is getting short. I started the checks/adjustments for the valvetrain yesterday. The order of tests, I figured should be: piston to valve, pushrod measurement, lifter preload, then rocker arm geometry. I went to install everything (all new except the head castings & valves), and I thought it would work okay to use some of my old pushrods to check piston to valve clearance. I haven't ordered new ones since I haven't measured for them yet. Went to do that, thinking my old pushrods would, if anything be too long, BUT, it turned out, they are too SHORT! I was very confused by this. Old and new lifters are the same size, and the heads have been milled twice. I checked with my new Scorpion pedestal roller rockers, as well as with the original rockers. Still too short. How can this be? Do engine blocks vary in deck height?! I know this is the new/seasoned shortblock vs. my old original engine, so that's a big difference from before. Still confuses me though.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi Zephyr,
Good you had a break, don’t embroil yourself in a timeline, in my thoughts, Yonkers
You’re running a solid lifter during
your P/V and geometry Checks-correct? You may run almost any light compression Type Springs (Hardware Store) providing they are strong enough to hold the Spring Retainer you’re running up hard enough on the Valve to hold the Valve keepers (or locks) in place.Any type of clay 9r Play-dough is even OK for P/V Checks, then reinstall what you’re going to run.
I’ll add to this more in the AM- k!
Best- John
Good you had a break, don’t embroil yourself in a timeline, in my thoughts, Yonkers
You’re running a solid lifter during
your P/V and geometry Checks-correct? You may run almost any light compression Type Springs (Hardware Store) providing they are strong enough to hold the Spring Retainer you’re running up hard enough on the Valve to hold the Valve keepers (or locks) in place.Any type of clay 9r Play-dough is even OK for P/V Checks, then reinstall what you’re going to run.
I’ll add to this more in the AM- k!
Best- John
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