A force divided (opinions on SC vs stroker)

zombiebrew

New Member
Sep 27, 2011
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Seattle
So i've been searching both this board and mustangforums.com for a verdict on whether it's better to go with a stroker kit or a supercharger. The field seems to be passionately divided. Here's what i have, what i do, and what i want.

I have a 1966 coupe with a mostly stock 1987 5.0L EFI there are a set of custom headers to fit the 66 coupe body. They sound gnarly. I've got upgraded suspension with new sway bars, a T-5 transmission, and an recently rebuilt 8.8 rear end.

I live in Seattle and this is a weekend car durring the 3 months out of the year we're not getting pissed on.

I want some more hp but just for street fun. I have no intentions on taking it to the track or anything like that.

Being that i'm not planning on reving it up to 5000rpms and going 125 on the highway. So i've ruled out a turbo because everything i've read says you get the power at the high rpms instead of a more even power that spans the entire rpm range.

I hear two very split opinions.

opinion #1 - "Just slap a supercharger on it!" There is a crowd that pushes the fact that these 5.0 engines can easily handle 6-9psi of supercharger without stressing the engine. I'm not sure i want that high pitch whine to drone out the low rumble of the pipes but that's small potatoes.

opinion #2 - Stroker kit! I've seen three types of stroker kits and this is the direction i'm looking to go. I've heard people say to build the car from the ground up and stroking the engine seems like a great way to ensure that i've got a solid base for a supercharger in the future.

suboption #1 - 306 stroker kit - why would someone do this? increase the engine 4ci???? Makes no sense to me but i'm new.

suboption #2 - 331 stroker kit - I've been told this is the most common. Perhaps because after doing other mods (intake, fuel injectors, SC, O2 sensor) if I stress the engine i could just stroke it to a 347????? That seems like a good option. Increase HP, big beefier parts, and some room for error!!!!

suboption #3 - 347 stroker kit - Just go all the way and then the HP might be enough to where i don't need the SC at all. I've been told that this is the extreme and puts undue stress on the block. If this fails am i looking at a new engine. A lot of people have chimed in that at this point dropping a 351 in is a better option.


Okay let her rip! Also i hear a lot of about intake mods but i have yet to see any examples accept port and polish. It seems pretty simple and cost effective. Just need a detail oriented eye! Thanks for the help all!!!!
 
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It sounds like you have quite a bit to learn about engines, young grasshopper. Allow me to delve into some of your questions a bit here.

Being that i'm not planning on reving it up to 5000rpms and going 125 on the highway. So i've ruled out a turbo because everything i've read says you get the power at the high rpms instead of a more even power that spans the entire rpm range.

This is a teenager mentality misconception. No, a turbo is not going to perform like a big block or a PD-blower engine does off-idle, but it does not necessarily have to be a high RPM screamer with a soft low end, and in fact, a lot of guys have turbos on street driven cars at sane RPM levels. I would consider a turbo a viable option if I were you.

opinion #1 - "Just slap a supercharger on it!" There is a crowd that pushes the fact that these 5.0 engines can easily handle 6-9psi of supercharger without stressing the engine. I'm not sure i want that high pitch whine to drone out the low rumble of the pipes but that's small potatoes.

The factory 5.0/302 block can handle roughly 500 hp before you get to a point where you're nearing the limits of the block. Regardless of how much boost it takes to get there, that's what it is. Boost pressure is just a measure of engine displacement VS volumetric efficiency and how much air your supercharger/turbo is pushing. It has nothing to do with how much the engine can handle before it breaks.

opinion #2 - Stroker kit! I've seen three types of stroker kits and this is the direction i'm looking to go. I've heard people say to build the car from the ground up and stroking the engine seems like a great way to ensure that i've got a solid base for a supercharger in the future.

Stroker kits do not make the stock block stronger. The block will break when you push the engine past 500hp, regardless of whether it's a 302, 306, 331, 347, whatever. Unless you go with an aftermarket block like a Dart or a Boss, a stroked engine is not necessarily a more "solid base" for a supercharger than a stock 302 is, because it all comes down to block strength.

suboption #1 - 306 stroker kit - why would someone do this? increase the engine 4ci???? Makes no sense to me but i'm new.

A "stroker" is only a "stroker" if you increase the stroke over stock. A 306 (or a 308, 310, whatever) is simply a rebuilt engine with a stock crank (or a stock stroke aftermarket crank), that has had its cylinders over-bored to correct the cylinder wall surface from wear after excessive mileage or mechanical damage. Over time, the pistons and rings wear against the cylinder wall and cause it to become out-of-round, tapered, and leaves a ridge near the top. The only way to fix this is bore it out and remove the "distorted" metal. This requires new pistons and inadvertently increases the displacement slightly, but does not offer any noticeable performance increase.

FYI- Stock stroke on a 302ci is 3.000". A 331ci is 3.250" and a 347ci is 3.400."

suboption #2 - 331 stroker kit - I've been told this is the most common. Perhaps because after doing other mods (intake, fuel injectors, SC, O2 sensor) if I stress the engine i could just stroke it to a 347????? That seems like a good option. Increase HP, big beefier parts, and some room for error!!!!

suboption #3 - 347 stroker kit - Just go all the way and then the HP might be enough to where i don't need the SC at all. I've been told that this is the extreme and puts undue stress on the block. If this fails am i looking at a new engine. A lot of people have chimed in that at this point dropping a 351 in is a better option.

There are some people that debate this a lot, but IMO, and also the opinion of some very knowledgeable engine builders, there is little reason to run anything but a 347. A 331 is NOT going to be stronger than a 347, and there has yet to be any real proof that a 331 lasts longer than a 347. Like I said, it's all about block strength, and regardless of whether you have a 331 or a 347, your engine's days are numbered once you hit the 500hp mark.

Now, if you get into extreme high-power situations with aftermarket blocks, there may be some reasons to run a 3.25" crank over a 3.4" crank, but that is beyond the scope of what you're doing here.

Okay let her rip! Also i hear a lot of about intake mods but i have yet to see any examples accept port and polish. It seems pretty simple and cost effective. Just need a detail oriented eye! Thanks for the help all!!!!

In any event, with a stroker, you're going to need to run an aftermarket set of heads, cam, and intake, as well as some other supporting mods. A stroker needs to eat, and the stock junk isn't going to cut it.

Same goes for a supercharged motor; you're going to get more performance out of it if you upgrade your top end parts first.

Good luck! Sounds like a cool car. :nice:
 
I'd slap a Vortech kit on it and be done with it. I've done that with my stock 302 then did a stroker 347. Both were great. I did the work myself. As for you I'd get a Vortech kit. Would sound cool on a 66 Mustang. When you pop the hood you get the Wow factor of a 66 with a Blower.

Your motor could like this blown.
MustangSupercharged.jpg


Or like this, regular looking.
c97cd3d6.jpg
 
Nic pretty much has your questions covered, now you will get a ton of people with opinions and arguments. Here is my opinion. Get a nice set of heads and intake, keep the stock cam and put a novi 2000 or a procharger p1sc on it.

That will get you north of 400rwhp, and will be a ton of fun on the street. The way the centrifugal blower hits will make the car feel faster than a 347 stroker on the street because the top end charge comes on so hard. my car was alot of fun on the street with the HCI/novi 2000. It had an E cam but you will make plenty of power to split a stock block with the stocker

Given the fact that you don't understand that a 306 is just a .040 over engine and not a stroker... I would slap a Vortech on it and be done.

This post make me laugh a little bit.
 
I want some more hp but just for street fun. I have no intentions on taking it to the track or anything like that.

Nic pretty much has your questions covered, now you will get a ton of people with opinions and arguments. Here is my opinion. Get a nice set of heads and intake, keep the stock cam and put a novi 2000 or a procharger p1sc on it.

That will get you north of 400rwhp, and will be a ton of fun on the street. The way the centrifugal blower hits will make the car feel faster than a 347 stroker on the street because the top end charge comes on so hard. my car was alot of fun on the street with the HCI/novi 2000. It had an E cam but you will make plenty of power to split a stock block with the stocker



This post make me laugh a little bit.


I'll offer one more opinion/alternative:

You didn't specify the health of your current engine or the miles however:

I would recommend that you keep all your OEM with the exception of
-pistons
-throttle body
-fuel injectors
-fuel pump
-MAF
-GT40 Lower Intake

Rebuild your motor to a 306 if it needs a rebuild. Forged pistons and rods as an extra added precaution.

Install a Kenne Bell 2.1L Blowzilla/Flowzilla along with a 75mm throttle body, 42# injectors, Boost-a-spark, Boost-a-pump, 255L fuel pump, a 75mm or larger mass air sensor, and a dyno tune.


This is the route I would take for No-Chit seat of the pants, street fun factory that will have no issues hitting the 400 HP mark.

What you will need to do, is your own cost comparison so see which route will get you there the easiest. If you're thinking at all that later on, you might want to add even more power, then I'd go with the HCI that 90lx suggests above and worry about boost later.


The only other note worthy item I can think of, off the top of my head, is that this setup and some sticky tires will make short work of just about any T-5 short of Spec or similar build.
 
i keep hearing that the T-5 is a less than stellar transmission.

The T5 is a GREAT transmission, it just was never intended for large amounts of power, and it prone to breakage when you are making good power and drive it hard.

There are companies that supply parts to make bulletproof T5s. Astro Performance is one in particular that I'm fond of.
 
I only have a few comments on this one:

suboption #1 - 306 stroker kit
:puke:

suboption #2 - 331 stroker kit - I've been told this is the most common. Perhaps because after doing other mods (intake, fuel injectors, SC, O2 sensor) if I stress the engine i could just stroke it to a 347????? That seems like a good option. Increase HP, big beefier parts, and some room for error!!!!
:puke:

Install a Kenne Bell 2.1L Blowzilla/Flowzilla
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:


The T5 is a GREAT transmission
:puke:


oh, and:
:pee:
i've ruled out a turbo because everything i've read says you get the power at the high rpms

Hope that helps!

Chris
 
I like the T56 with the .5:1 6th gear. That would allow a pretty nice cruising RPM even with shorter rear gears. To me, the .63 standard 6th gear does not differ enough from the .675 TKO 5th gear to make it worthwhile. I like the idea of 1:1 4th, a .8-ish:1 5th so you won't lose ground in a highway roll, and then a massive drop to .5:1 when you're trying to get some gas mileage and reduce wear and tear on the HWY.
 
To the 408 crowd: He has a 302, not a 351 and just wants to have some fun on the street.

I say, to not go crazy, a 350-400hp is more than enough on the street without suspension mods, mini-tub, etc... He can refresh the motor to a 306 and do the Trickflow HCI kit for, what, 350hp? Or he can get a trickflow stage 1 cam, a Vortech, some EFI upgrades including intake for the same HP. More than enough fun for the street. His stock 87 302 only has maybe 200-225hp, a 100-175hp jump would be more than enough.. lol

I like overkill too and if budget isn't an issue, I'd go with a HCI and 10psi for that near 500hp mark, or HCI + 347 for whatever that can make but will always be there and the bottom end torque would be a fun tire roaster.

Keep in mind, I'm not as knowledgable as most members here when it comes to power and combos lol

Power Rant:
Mine started out with "only" 313rwhp with boost on a very tired and stock 25 year old 5.0L. Today it's closer to 400 than 300. My tires catch on fire from a roll in 2nd and 3rd now... I can end up sideways if I try and pass someone without being careful now. It's fun, but not as drivable as 300 range. I'm doing more stuff, heads, intake, fixing the EFI with bigger injectors, Tweecer and getting rid of the FMU. I want that 500hp mark with more boost. Not even sure why the hell I want this, I'd never use it. Car is scary enough as it is. Because of this, I need to work the suspension. So more power is a drug, an expensive and dangerous one.