Engine 2000 Saleen Series I I ; Mil Status Off, Running Rich, Idle High
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Almost a year later and my car isn't running or running well. The original owner found me and gave me some more info.
Right now I need to accomplish the following;
Right now I need to accomplish the following;
- Install new IAC; this has been order waiting for it's arrival.
(get the car going again, previously the throttle screw was messed with to keep car running)
- Remove under pulleys and install stock pulleys (Water, and Crank)
- Need to purchase new PCM or Re-Flash current PCM. It has a diablo chip, and without it I get a P1639; The shop might have damaged my computer. No idea what the chip has.
I also don't have the VIN number of the swapped engine, any ideas on how to get it? My O2B reader "VIN" is not supported.
I'd love to re-flash, and get an SCT tuner either xct4 or livewire
- In regards to 90 mm Lightning MAF. Currently my O2B reader reads 2.95 g per second from MAF, but it never fluctuates, I wonder if it's tuned correctly, or was installed correctly. You mentioned previously about testing with a volt meter.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Regarding the VIN # of the swapped motor I don't know how you would go about getting it. Here's a recent thread that has some information about how the VIN number and PCM work together. For the 2000 model year, the PCM doesn't require a VIN number anyway.
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/adding-vin-to-ecu.895933/
Further I don't understand WHY it would be needed. It seems to me that the problem is bigger than just needing the VIN number.
It seems to me that the BIGGEST problem is WHY the MAF reads the same all the time. To me, it isn't a surprise the motor won't idle correctly or run right when the PCM doesn't have accurate MAF flow information.
Another option is to find a VIN number of any Mustang GT with the same model year and transmission and use that to program the VID block. The trick here is to match what the original PCM is/was expecting.
>>
P1639 - Vehicle ID Block Not Programed Or Is Corrupt
This diagnostic trouble code (DTC) indicates that the vehicle ID (VID) block is not programed or the information within is corrupt
EDIT: Here's a Ford TSB that may offer some additional information.
>>
Article No.
02-23-4
11/25/02
^ DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) - P1635AND/OR P1639 PRESENT AFTER POWERTRAIN
CONTROL MODULE (PCM) OR INSTRUMENT
CLUSTER REPLACEMENT - GASOLINE ENGINE
VEHICLES ONLY
^ LAMP - 4X4 LAMP ILLUMINATED AFTERPOWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) OR
INSTRUMENT CLUSTER REPLACEMENT -
GASOLINE ENGINE VEHICLES ONLY
^ SPEEDOMETER - INACCURATE AND/ORINOPERATIVE AFTER POWERTRAIN CONTROL
MODULE (PCM) OR INSTRUMENT CLUSTER
REPLACEMENT - GASOLINE ENGINE VEHICLES
ONLY
FORD:
1999-2002 MUSTANG
2000-2002 FOCUS
1999-2002 EXPEDITION, F-150
2000-2002 E SERIES
2001-2002 EXPLORER SPORT TRAC, EXPLORER SPORT, RANGER
2002 EXPLORER
LINCOLN:
1999-2002 TOWN CAR, NAVIGATOR
2002 BLACKWOOD
MERCURY:
2002 MOUNTAINEER
Article 02-5-8 is being republished in its entirety to update the Service Procedure and to clarify build dates for Explorer.
This article applies to all vehicles listed with the exception of 2002 Explorer. This article applies to 2002 Explorer (SLAP) St. Louis Assembly Plant built before 3/11/2002 and 2002 Explorer (LAP) Louisville Assembly Plant built before 3/4/2002 only.
ISSUE
Some vehicles may exhibit an inoperative or inaccurate speedometer, 4x4 lamp illuminated, and/or Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTCs) P1635 or P1639 present after a Powertrain Control Module (PCM) or Instrument Cluster replacement. This may be caused by the Vehicle Identification (VID) block that must be programmed when replacing the PCM.
ACTION
As part of the calibration, there is an area referred to as the Vehicle Identification (VID) block. The VID block must be programmed when replacing the PCM. Failure to perform the proper Programmable Module Installation procedure may generate fault code: P1639 VID Block not programmed or is corrupt--P1635 Tire/Axle Out Of Acceptable Range. Refer to the following procedures to ensure the PCM is properly configured.
OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: NONE
SUPERSEDES: 02-5-8
WARRANTY STATUS: INFORMATION ONLY
OASIS CODES: 204000, 204100, 206000, 690000, 698298
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/adding-vin-to-ecu.895933/
Further I don't understand WHY it would be needed. It seems to me that the problem is bigger than just needing the VIN number.
It seems to me that the BIGGEST problem is WHY the MAF reads the same all the time. To me, it isn't a surprise the motor won't idle correctly or run right when the PCM doesn't have accurate MAF flow information.
Another option is to find a VIN number of any Mustang GT with the same model year and transmission and use that to program the VID block. The trick here is to match what the original PCM is/was expecting.
>>
P1639 - Vehicle ID Block Not Programed Or Is Corrupt
This diagnostic trouble code (DTC) indicates that the vehicle ID (VID) block is not programed or the information within is corrupt
- New PCM
- Incorrect PCM
- Incorrect VID configuration
EDIT: Here's a Ford TSB that may offer some additional information.
>>
Article No.
02-23-4
11/25/02
^ DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) - P1635AND/OR P1639 PRESENT AFTER POWERTRAIN
CONTROL MODULE (PCM) OR INSTRUMENT
CLUSTER REPLACEMENT - GASOLINE ENGINE
VEHICLES ONLY
^ LAMP - 4X4 LAMP ILLUMINATED AFTERPOWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) OR
INSTRUMENT CLUSTER REPLACEMENT -
GASOLINE ENGINE VEHICLES ONLY
^ SPEEDOMETER - INACCURATE AND/ORINOPERATIVE AFTER POWERTRAIN CONTROL
MODULE (PCM) OR INSTRUMENT CLUSTER
REPLACEMENT - GASOLINE ENGINE VEHICLES
ONLY
FORD:
1999-2002 MUSTANG
2000-2002 FOCUS
1999-2002 EXPEDITION, F-150
2000-2002 E SERIES
2001-2002 EXPLORER SPORT TRAC, EXPLORER SPORT, RANGER
2002 EXPLORER
LINCOLN:
1999-2002 TOWN CAR, NAVIGATOR
2002 BLACKWOOD
MERCURY:
2002 MOUNTAINEER
Article 02-5-8 is being republished in its entirety to update the Service Procedure and to clarify build dates for Explorer.
This article applies to all vehicles listed with the exception of 2002 Explorer. This article applies to 2002 Explorer (SLAP) St. Louis Assembly Plant built before 3/11/2002 and 2002 Explorer (LAP) Louisville Assembly Plant built before 3/4/2002 only.
ISSUE
Some vehicles may exhibit an inoperative or inaccurate speedometer, 4x4 lamp illuminated, and/or Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTCs) P1635 or P1639 present after a Powertrain Control Module (PCM) or Instrument Cluster replacement. This may be caused by the Vehicle Identification (VID) block that must be programmed when replacing the PCM.
ACTION
As part of the calibration, there is an area referred to as the Vehicle Identification (VID) block. The VID block must be programmed when replacing the PCM. Failure to perform the proper Programmable Module Installation procedure may generate fault code: P1639 VID Block not programmed or is corrupt--P1635 Tire/Axle Out Of Acceptable Range. Refer to the following procedures to ensure the PCM is properly configured.
OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: NONE
SUPERSEDES: 02-5-8
WARRANTY STATUS: INFORMATION ONLY
OASIS CODES: 204000, 204100, 206000, 690000, 698298
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umm what.....Sell it immediately. If all they did was splice the existing wiring harness, then thats the issue. You'd pretty much need a PCM and a wiring harness out of a v8 car.
a v6 only has a 70mm MAF and it has different calibrations in the PCM.
Thank you @mogs01gt for your input. The engine was swapped completely including v8 wire harness, cluster panel, pcm, and pat system. The original owner explained to me before they swapped in the Supercharger Saleen Series II; it ran like a champ.
The Supercharger came with a PCM that was tuned, which has a diablo chip in it. When you remove the chip then the PCM outputs the error code I posted above.
@wmburns; thanks as always for your reply. I was wondering when switching a MAF from stock GT MAF to 90mm Lighting MAF; does anything in particular need to happen? From the research I've done; it seems that the 90mm Lighting is a swap of MAF and tune, unlike 02-04 GT's.
I'm wondering if the tune, has some sort of overwrite, or set static.
I'm wondering if the tune, has some sort of overwrite, or set static.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
For a street driven car the motor must be able to adjust to changing load/RPM for street use. Hence the use of an engine management strategy using a PCM with sensors (MAF, O2).
For a drag car, the tune is done for the current conditions (weather, temperature, track).
Let me ask you. Are you driving a "street" car or a drag racer?
How in the world could we possibly expect to drive on the street a car with a motor that is not adjusting to current driving conditions? Asked another way. What would be the purpose of even having a MAF if the signals weren't used? Otherwise the car would be tuned like a drag racer.
It was reported that the car at one point in time drove on the street fine. Now it does not. To me that implies something changed. Flat line MAF maybe?
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The change was that the person whom put the car together added a Saleen Series II supercharger kit. The kit came with a tuned PCM, that is tuned with a Diablo Chip. I have no idea, and neither did he; as to how that computer was tuned, perhaps it came from a dragster. That's why I was wondering if you could set the MAF in a tune to fixed. Considering purchasing new PCM getting flashed and then tuning it with XCT 4.
The car currently has a Saleen underdrive pulley kit, I'll be swapping it out tomorrow to stock. Since it's boosted I've learned underdrive pulley's are a no no.
Also i've replaced the IAC today, the car seems to stay on longer and seem somewhat smoother;
View: https://youtu.be/0G8zj4P9mx4
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
I was trying to make a point. Hoping to allow you to think it through and come to the answer yourself. Knowledge is power.
Let me say this point blank. You do not have a dragster. The Saleen "kit" was designed to be street driven.
This motor will never run well on the street with a "flat lining" MAF. IMO until you find the reason that an accurate/changing MAF sensor signal isn't making it to the PCM, any repairs done will most be "working at" the problem. Either the MAF is bad, the wiring is bad, or the PCM is bad.
If this were my car, I would find a buddy to use a stock MAF from. Using a stock MAF would test to see if the MAF signal is different. If different this would "prove" the wiring is OK and likely the PCM is processing data.
What cams are in it? It sounds like it has a small set of low duration cams or it has a big miss. It definitely is pointing towards a tuning issue.
Thanks @wmburns. I understand what you've been saying. I was just curious if it was possible to program it "flat line", because I'm the fourth owner (that i know of) of the supercharger kit, and have no idea what others may have done to the tune. It was mainly out of curiosity; if that was even a possibility, and like you've been insinuating, it seems that purposefully set "flat line" scenario would be very unlikely given the supercharger kit was meant for street driving.
Finding a stock MAF to test; is a great idea! Didn't even cross my mind. I've been so narrow focused on getting this MAF tuned, or figuring out the issue.
I did something very stupid this weekend. I didn't notice that I crossed the wires on the jumper cable, and the mustang is now dead. Going to get a battery replace, and check the fuses. I'm hoping it's just the starter fuse, and the battery that got damaged.
The saga continues;
Today I changed the following;
- PCM
- Cluster
- Pats + Key
- Stock Maf
@wmburns the car now idles a little bit above 1,000 rpm. There is a P1506 code, that I'm going to check if I have any vacuum leaks, since I purchased a brand new IAC recently and installed it.
The car is loosing power, and almost wants to turn off when I actually drive it, otherwise it idles a bit high.
The MAF issue of staying static at 2.95 grams, is gone, it now fluctuates. It was the PCM, because I tried the stock MAF, with the previous pcm and the readings were never dynamic, always 2.95 grams.
Reading this post you made while back; https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/high-idle-anyone-wmburns.800824/
Today I changed the following;
- PCM
- Cluster
- Pats + Key
- Stock Maf
@wmburns the car now idles a little bit above 1,000 rpm. There is a P1506 code, that I'm going to check if I have any vacuum leaks, since I purchased a brand new IAC recently and installed it.
The car is loosing power, and almost wants to turn off when I actually drive it, otherwise it idles a bit high.
The MAF issue of staying static at 2.95 grams, is gone, it now fluctuates. It was the PCM, because I tried the stock MAF, with the previous pcm and the readings were never dynamic, always 2.95 grams.
Reading this post you made while back; https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/high-idle-anyone-wmburns.800824/
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wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Suggest double checking the engine on voltage at the battery to confirm that the alternator is actually charging.
As for the P1506 DTC. another possible cause could be the throttle body idle stop screw set too high.
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/resources/troubleshoot-iac-idle-problems-1996-2004.13/
P1506 - Idle Air Control (IAC) Overspeed Error
As for the P1506 DTC. another possible cause could be the throttle body idle stop screw set too high.
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/resources/troubleshoot-iac-idle-problems-1996-2004.13/
P1506 - Idle Air Control (IAC) Overspeed Error
- IAC circuit short to GND
- Damaged IAC valve
- IAC valve stuck open
- Vacuum leaks
- Failed EVAP system
- Damaged PCM
For today, I went ahead and fixed one of the missing steps (#91) from the Saleen Series II supercharger install manual. After I did this, I then decreased the throttle body screw, and ideal sat between 850 to low 900's. Cleared codes.
Took it out for a spin and ran terribly (when stepping on the gas, the car stutters, hesitates, and supercharger doesn't get to engage). I have yet to tune the car.
Hooked up my phone to the obd2 wifi thing, and got the following form the app on my phone. The car currently has 42# Injectors and no tune, so system too rich is no surprise.
