Engine Changed Timing Chains, Guides And Tensioners. Still Have Rattle.

StrangerDanger

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May 1, 2016
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Ok guys, I know there have been a ton of threads on this topic and I have read hundreds and not finding what I need to know. I have a 2001 Mustang Gt, Automatic if that makes any difference, I changed the timing chains, sprockets, Guides and tensioners due to the old guides being worn and right tensioner rubbing against the chain for ?? How long. After putting it all back together I still have what sounds like chain Rattle on the right side still and I cannot figure out why. I even tore it all back down, replaced the tensioner again and still have chain Rattle on the right side. Took the car to a friend's shop and he said the timing is ok, so what would still be causing the chain rattle?
 
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When you put the new timing set on, and released the temporary clip holding the tensioner compressed just how much did the plunger pop out?

Does the rattle ONLY happen on start up?

I'm afraid to say that IF you are certain that the work has been done correctly and there's still a problem THEN IMO the most likely explanation is low oil pressure. What could cause low oil pressure?
  • Blocked oil pick up. Frequently when the timing set fails, pieces of plastic will fall into the oil pan blocking the pick up.
  • bad oil pump. IMO this is less likely because normally the Ford modular oil pumps are very good.
I JUST finished replacing the timing set on a 2005 F-150 3V 5.4. One of the guides broke and the chain rubbed the metal timing cover. We found out about the problem from the metal debris in the oil filter. In our case there were tons of fingernail sized pieces of plastic in the oil pan. Being a truck it was easy to remove the oil pan to perform the check. Very glad we did.

Because the 5.4 3V motor is so affected by oil pressure, we replaced the oil pump while we were there. Frankly it was a TON of work to perform the job. To me it seemed like cheap insurance.

In your case it likely is a good idea to MEASURE the oil pressure with an external gauge.
 
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Could be a lifter or cam follower. My 08' Bullitt had this type of noise and I replaced all of the lifters and cam followers and the noise went away. Even though I did not see anything specificly wrong with the stock parts. I did these first because I thought that maybe the more agressive cams I installed several years ago might have accelerated the wear of these parts.
 
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wmburns, I didn't think about shaving on the pickup so I'll pull the pan on my next day off and take a look. When I pulled the pins, the plungers extended about a quarter of an inch and the chains appear to have proper tension. BTW when the motor is cold it doesn't rattle until it warms up and then it starts and gets worse the warmer the engine gets.

Bullitt347, after I take a look at the oil pick up and if that isn't the issue I'll look into that.

I'll let you guys know what I find out. Thanks for the advice.
 
BTW when the motor is cold it doesn't rattle until it warms up and then it starts and gets worse the warmer the engine gets..
Are you positive the noise is from the chains? To me the fact is gets worse when the oil is hot adds to the possibility this is oil pressure related.
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As you are aware from doing the work, changing the oil pump is not hard while changing the timing chains. But a measurement of the oil pressure can rule this in/out. But based upon my two prior experiences with this sort of issue, if there are pieces of broken plastic in the oil pan, it is very possible for this to block the pick up

FWIIW, dropping the oil pan on the Mustang is not a simple job. The Ford manual indicates that the K-member will need to be disconnected and lowered to gain clearance. This means supporting the motor from above.

Good luck.
 
Are you positive the noise is from the chains? To me the fact is gets worse when the oil is hot adds to the possibility this is oil pressure related.
.
As you are aware from doing the work, changing the oil pump is not hard while changing the timing chains. But a measurement of the oil pressure can rule this in/out. But based upon my two prior experiences with this sort of issue, if there are pieces of broken plastic in the oil pan, it is very possible for this to block the pick up

FWIIW, dropping the oil pan on the Mustang is not a simple job. The Ford manual indicates that the K-member will need to be disconnected and lowered to gain clearance. This means supporting the motor from above.

Good luck.
I am aware of the job at hand, I have stands good floor jacks and an engine hoist. I'll be pulling the pan tomorrow and will be pulling the pick up tube to inspect/clean it. I'll let you guys know what comes of it.
 
I'm having the same problem also. I've replaced chains, guides and tensioners as soon as I heard the first tick. All guides were still intact, but very worn at 196k. The original passenger side tensioner was stiff, and it's chain had slack. After I replaced chains,guide, tensioners the chain noise came back within 100 miles. I reopened the timing cover and the right side was a little loose. I replaced that tensioner, but again within 100 miles the rattle is back. I put an external oil pressure gauge on and I get 80 psi on a cold start 20+ at idle warm. I'm pulling my hair out. Help
 
I'm having the same problem also. I've replaced chains, guides and tensioners as soon as I heard the first tick. All guides were still intact, but very worn at 196k. The original passenger side tensioner was stiff, and it's chain had slack. After I replaced chains,guide, tensioners the chain noise came back within 100 miles. I reopened the timing cover and the right side was a little loose. I replaced that tensioner, but again within 100 miles the rattle is back. I put an external oil pressure gauge on and I get 80 psi on a cold start 20+ at idle warm. I'm pulling my hair out. Help
As has been mentioned in this thread, the debris from the prior chain guide as well as the ground up plastic falls down into the oil pan and blocks or restricts the oil pick up screen. What have you done to CLEAN the oil pan?

There is NEVER a better time to install a new oil pump when performing a timing chain set install. If this were my car, maybe not the first time but most certainly the SECOND time I would also install a new oil pump after cleaning the pick up tube.

When the tensioner was removed, was there ANY metal debris behind the Tensioner? If so this indicates the possibility of metal debris blocking the oil passage ways. If so this largely means that the oil pressure reading at the oil pressure sender is irrelevant.

If this motor is using the plastic version of the tensioners, perhaps consider switching to the metal versions. The metal versions have a LATCH that will keep tension on the chain in the absence of oil pressure. Perhaps this can offer some relief.

Have you inspected the cam tower caps for evidence of excessive bearing ware? Consider IF true this could cause the turning effort to be greater than it should be. Thus causing the new chain to ware out quicker.

Finally. Some consideration should be given to excessive bearing clearances causing low oil pressure through out the motor.
 
I put in a new oil pump after the rattle returned when I replaced the guides/ tensioners the first time.. My original guides weren't worn threw , but the right side tensioner was stiff. I'm concerned I have a restriction or a clearence issue. Thanks for the reply, and if you think of anything I can do let me know please. I've owned this Gt since "05, and just spent 3k sprucing her up . Two months later the chains start rattling. I'm not ready to let her go just yet.
 
This might be a long shot but have you guys tried to replace the header gaskets? I know it sounds stupid but I've watched a video of somebody fixing a problem that sounds similar to what you guys are mentioning by replacing the header gasket it was a small exhaust leak rather than the timing. I mean it couldn't hurt and it's cheaper than timing components and after all these years probably needs done.
 
I just did all my timing parts because that’s what I been reading on here and when I took old guides out looked brand new. Cover had run marks. Previous owner did them 6 years ago. And when I bought car it has 2013 inspection. And well I ended up buying it ran with no noise for days. So idk wtf it is but definitely not rod or piston slap. It’s only at no load 2000rpm no noise on gas no noise on decel just after hot and basically when u shift and like the clutch starts to grab before u hit gas again