I went to an actual speed shop that works on Mustangs to get my quote. My trust level for who I hand my car off to is extremely low, so that one shop was selected after months of research and in-person interviews of former customers and employees. 
Fox Subframe installation cost?
- Thread starter derek1993
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Welding them in isn’t a big deal. I had one of my body men weld them in, without having to pull seats and the carpet. I’m not a great welder, just have to be careful. Took an hour or two. I’m sure there is a reputable body shop around you that will weld them in for you.
Probably helps if you show up with the rear and pass seat removed and the carpet pulled. Couldn't hurt.
When I do my SFC's later this summer, i'll have the carpet out, and likely toss a bag of ice over the area being welded. Prob overkill, but better than coming back on SN to tell everyone that after 2 years of hard work, I burned my car down.
When I do my SFC's later this summer, i'll have the carpet out, and likely toss a bag of ice over the area being welded. Prob overkill, but better than coming back on SN to tell everyone that after 2 years of hard work, I burned my car down.
Funny you mention it....the entire inside of my car is out...seats, carpet, dash....everything. It's just a shell with a steering wheel! No carpet fire here!
Good idea about the body shops...haven't tried them yet.
Good idea about the body shops...haven't tried them yet.
Couple years back I got a price of $450 (including the connectors). That’s when I decided to buy a welder and do them myself. So far so good!
I bought a MIG from Eastwood and practiced A LOT. I did have some very limited exposure to welding years ago, so it wasn’t completely new to me.
My first project was rear sections of floor pans. Then I tackled the SFC. I’m pretty confident that they are one there good, although the welds are not the prettiest!
Sorry @derek1993 for getting off track! Back to you!
Upside down welding is supposed to be the hardest... Maybe that was more of a stick weld problem?? I have seen the exhaust guys buzz around the pipe with a mig and they make it look awfully easy .......
Hop on YouTube and you’ll find plenty of vids of amateur welders installing these. The welds may not be the prettiest but as long as enoigh power is used it will hold.
a mig with shielding gas might be the easiest method vs stick or flux
a mig with shielding gas might be the easiest method vs stick or flux
I'm not too familiar with the shops on the South side of town, but Moe's in Dallas, GA, and Attitude Street Cars in Marietta, GA will definitely do it. Moe's has a waiting list, but they do really good work. You can contact Brandon at Attitude Street Cars, and they will likely get you right in. Their welder is very competent as well.
Kurt
Thank you Kurt. I will check them out! I am fairly new to the area so still getting used to things. Won't be living here too much longer though. Trying to head south toward the beaches!!! I am totally stripping this car down but have tried to leave enough to be driveable. I might be past that point now though. Will have to see if it will still start and enough stuff to work to avoid a ticket. The dash is gone already but I could toss a instrument cluster in.
Thanks again for the info,
Ken
Thanks again for the info,
Ken
As far as having a muffler shop do it, your mileage may vary. I’ve seen some of the worst welds on a car come out of muffler shops. Can’t compete with a good chassis shop, but they’ll run more money.
If you’re going to be working a lot on cars, a decent welder is a good thing to invest in. Remember though, it’s not JUST the welder you’ll need. You’ll need a bottle, hood, gloves, regulator, abrasives for material prep, etc. The harbor freight multiprocess welders are actually good as far as budget welders goes.
If you’re going to be working a lot on cars, a decent welder is a good thing to invest in. Remember though, it’s not JUST the welder you’ll need. You’ll need a bottle, hood, gloves, regulator, abrasives for material prep, etc. The harbor freight multiprocess welders are actually good as far as budget welders goes.
IMO, structural is NOT where you start welding. I have a welder and i've done some welding, maybe some people pick up the skill fairly easy, but you still need to be able to assess what is a quality weld and what is not. Just because it sticks together doesn't mean it's right. I'm surely no expert and i don't personally feel like i'm the guy at this point to do subs (i do have others to do it free of cost, which may hinder my learning).
And while i've seen people set the carpet on fire doing jacking rails, i've never seen it on subs.
And while i've seen people set the carpet on fire doing jacking rails, i've never seen it on subs.
It needs the instrument cluster for the alternator to work unfortunately. I lived down on the beaches in Florida for 20 years, and moved up here.
Kurt
Eh, subframes on a Mustang are pretty easy. Welds are pretty much there to hold them in place, and they are huge seems. I used to do them with a flux core alll the time.
Kurt
My recommendation would be to remove the seats and roll the carpet up away from the seat mounts. Then have the car put on a frame machine and leveled and trued. Then and only then while it is still on the frame machine, have the subframes welded in place. That way the car isn't crooked or twisted out of alignment and level. IT WILL COST MORE $$$ BUT IT WILL BE DONE RIGHT.
I‘d say that it’s not as easy as everybody thinks it is. And no overhead welding job on galvanized steel that is intended as a structural reinforcement should be a first time welding experiment.
And if sht-Welding in a SF connector just to get it stuck in place is the standard, you may as well bolt it in.
Firstly You’re laying on your side or back having to brace the welding gun with the hand/arm that that you need to help hold you up, and the higher you get the car in the air, the more you need to hold yourself up. It’s dirty, galvanized metal, which pops, and spatters, with occasional blobs of molten metal that “drip”, then hit either you laying directly underneath, or hit the ground, and then pop up and hit you.
You will get burned.
Regardless of how empty the interior is, the factory sound deadening is also just as likely to light up. Or at the very least, smoke the interior up real good.
A weld doesn’t have to be pretty to have good integrity, but i’ve seen plenty of pictures of welded in SF connectors that are not only Not pretty, but are also highly suspect.
id think that a gutted interior project with a full exhaust in the way, a transmission hanging down in the middle ( cause you have to get on both sides of the SF) and 30 years worth of grease and crud to clean off wold be worth at least 200 bucks if somebody was paying to have it done.
And if sht-Welding in a SF connector just to get it stuck in place is the standard, you may as well bolt it in.
Firstly You’re laying on your side or back having to brace the welding gun with the hand/arm that that you need to help hold you up, and the higher you get the car in the air, the more you need to hold yourself up. It’s dirty, galvanized metal, which pops, and spatters, with occasional blobs of molten metal that “drip”, then hit either you laying directly underneath, or hit the ground, and then pop up and hit you.
You will get burned.
Regardless of how empty the interior is, the factory sound deadening is also just as likely to light up. Or at the very least, smoke the interior up real good.
A weld doesn’t have to be pretty to have good integrity, but i’ve seen plenty of pictures of welded in SF connectors that are not only Not pretty, but are also highly suspect.
id think that a gutted interior project with a full exhaust in the way, a transmission hanging down in the middle ( cause you have to get on both sides of the SF) and 30 years worth of grease and crud to clean off wold be worth at least 200 bucks if somebody was paying to have it done.
Have any of you done a convertible? Is the car in question a convertible? Carbed or injected? My first set of SFC's that I installed in a Fox were from Global West, they consisted of the SFC, a jacking rail and the cross ties between the two. The impact of the installation was apparent immediately! Literally pulling out of my sloped driveway it was apparent that the twisting I wasn't even aware of was gone. Having said that I've used GW SFC's and never looked back but based on my experience with their other products I'm sure MM's SFC's are a quality product as well.
To my questions above, welding SFC's in a convertible is not as easy as in a coupe or hatch. First you have to remove all of the factory "reinforcements" in the car. True they are only pop riveted in but there are approximately 150 1/4" pop rivets and you have to drill out every one of them. Then you have to deal with brake, fuel and vacuum lines that run along the floor along the inside of the passenger rocker panel. If it's carbed it's pretty simple but the fuelie cars have additional lines for vacuum and return fuel. Unfortunately the factory didn't take into consideration that we'd be installing SFC's so they are right in the way. If it's an 89-93 GT the side skirts will have to come off of both sides.
Doing this on a frame machine or other jig would be perfect world but it can be done quite successfully without, just be sure that the weight of the car is on the tires. Not on jackstands under the A arms and axle, on the tires. The set I just completed I stacked 5 pallets under each tire which gave me about 2 feet of additional work space. The pallets were all new, high quality and all of the same dimension. I placed them in such a way that the weight of the vehicle sat right on top of the middle cross brace all they way to the floor. It worked great and I was never in any danger. To be fair though I have a 2 post lift and had the lift pads located out of the way but able to catch the car if the pallets did fail.
I've never had to pull interior panels to install the GW SFC's Each end saddles over the factory subframe with an intermediate brace at the back of the forward frame rail adjacent to the tail housing of the tranny. The floor reinforcement welds to the SFC and bolts in place where the rear seat bolts come thru the floor. The jacking rails are stitch welded along the lower rocker panel.
As I said above depending on what you're dealing with I would say that $260 is a fair price, undoubtedly you can find it for more money or less but ultimately it all comes down to will they do it right? Do you trust them? As to doing it yourself as a first time project I'd say that's a pass. Remember you want it done right. I welded in my first set with a little wire feed welder that I bought at Sams, the only problem I had is that it was such a light duty machine that it would only weld a couple of inches and then shutoff for 10 minutes to cool down.
Happy motoring!
To my questions above, welding SFC's in a convertible is not as easy as in a coupe or hatch. First you have to remove all of the factory "reinforcements" in the car. True they are only pop riveted in but there are approximately 150 1/4" pop rivets and you have to drill out every one of them. Then you have to deal with brake, fuel and vacuum lines that run along the floor along the inside of the passenger rocker panel. If it's carbed it's pretty simple but the fuelie cars have additional lines for vacuum and return fuel. Unfortunately the factory didn't take into consideration that we'd be installing SFC's so they are right in the way. If it's an 89-93 GT the side skirts will have to come off of both sides.
Doing this on a frame machine or other jig would be perfect world but it can be done quite successfully without, just be sure that the weight of the car is on the tires. Not on jackstands under the A arms and axle, on the tires. The set I just completed I stacked 5 pallets under each tire which gave me about 2 feet of additional work space. The pallets were all new, high quality and all of the same dimension. I placed them in such a way that the weight of the vehicle sat right on top of the middle cross brace all they way to the floor. It worked great and I was never in any danger. To be fair though I have a 2 post lift and had the lift pads located out of the way but able to catch the car if the pallets did fail.
I've never had to pull interior panels to install the GW SFC's Each end saddles over the factory subframe with an intermediate brace at the back of the forward frame rail adjacent to the tail housing of the tranny. The floor reinforcement welds to the SFC and bolts in place where the rear seat bolts come thru the floor. The jacking rails are stitch welded along the lower rocker panel.
As I said above depending on what you're dealing with I would say that $260 is a fair price, undoubtedly you can find it for more money or less but ultimately it all comes down to will they do it right? Do you trust them? As to doing it yourself as a first time project I'd say that's a pass. Remember you want it done right. I welded in my first set with a little wire feed welder that I bought at Sams, the only problem I had is that it was such a light duty machine that it would only weld a couple of inches and then shutoff for 10 minutes to cool down.
Happy motoring!
100% on all that!
Me and a good friend that's a welder by trade did mine. I wish I'd taken pics. My first thought is that you do these once and never touch them again so do them correctly. This isn't the mod to skimp on. It doesn't mean you have to pay $400.... you can look around. But $200 or so is fair. Back in the old days I made these things and installed them before you could buy these MM full lengths. In my case, I was the mustang guy and my buddy was the welder. I knew exactly how I wanted them installed and he was bullet proof welding.
Yes I had the carpet out. And yes the factory sound mat smoked and was super hot. I see no way to do it without pulling carpet. Maybe Kurt's icebag will work fine but why chance it on your own car that you can pull the carpet so easily.?
Next thing... Read MM's install instructions. You don't just slap them in on these with the cross braces for the seats. Lots of small welding around all the seams of those seat supports. There is a process. Do it right.
More.... These cars are old. Most all of these cars are not perfect under there. Every single one I've done is different. But when done correctly, this mod is the single best mod I ever did.
I agreed with the above quoted post. Everything in there was accurate to my install.
Even more...... I consider the job me and my bud did to be the best possible job. I hit it all with a wire wheel, primed it with self etching primer, then painted it. All rattle can of course. Took us 3 hours or so to do it right. Doors and hatch close perfectly. The car is rock solid now.
I wouldn't just let a muffler shop do it. If you are friends with the person you can do what I did and do the assist and proper following of procedure and just let him do the welding. Lots of folks won't do that though.
Let us know how it turns out. You have great input on this from all these posts if you ask me.
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