1968 Mustang Fastback Build Thread - GT350R Engine & BMW DCT Trans

DarkoStoj

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A little back story

I bought the car when I was 19 from a friend I went to school with. The car was super nice & complete. He had rebuilt the engine, and didn't get around to putting it back together. I had bought it from him as a basketcase. The car has sat until I was able to afford to build it how I wanted. It is a 1968 Fastback J-Code with Factory A/C, Red/Red, & auto. My good friend and I who has experience with these cars & racing has decided to help with the project.

I recently build a pretty unique race car all on my own, and want to build an ultimate street/road race vehicle out of my beloved mustang. The race car I built is a 1977 Rolls Royce with a Viper drivetrain that competes in the 24 Hours of LeMons. www.instagram.com/rollsroycedoesntcare

First thing was disassembling, then had it sandblasted, dipped, and ecoated. We mounted it on a Rotisserie. We painted the bottom and interior in factory colors.

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Now we are trying to figure out what components to go with and what the best way to swap the drive train is.


Requirements:

Coyote engine swap (Already have 5.2L GT350R Flat Plane engine)
TR9070 DCT transmission (Out of GT500)
Would prefer a quick ratio manual steering with an EPAS column setup. Coyote engine does not come with a power steering pump from factory
Centerlock unit bearing style hubs
rear full floater axle housing
Mini tub rear
not cutting up/welding the body to an extreme amount (car was almost compeltely rust free) - would be a shame to cut it all up


Questions:

Would be great if I could get some recommendations on what companies to go with.

1. What company offers the best front suspension setup with shock tower delete and a coyote engine?

2. What company offers the best rear suspension setup for aggressive road racing? The options I have seen so far but don't fully love are:
-TCP rear 4 link
-TCP rear torque arm
-Street or track 3 link with watts link

3. What quick ratio manual steering options are available (if any) I know TCP offers a power steering pump conversion for the coyote, but a manual/EPAS setup would be really awesome for track performance and being able to dial in assist for street driving.

Next step for the car is ordering all of the suspension & getting them installed.

Any info would be great! Thanks!
 
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wicked93gs

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Sep 30, 2006
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If you want the BEST shock tower delete front suspension...you want Griggs...possibly Detroit Speed....rear end, probably Griggs again....but if you are talking removing shock towers...you are already doing major surgery....I wouldn't worry about more. I did see one guy with a Coyote engine that retained towers...notched towers and a mcphereson strut front end, but still...I am willing to bet with a little work you could retain full shock towers, your manifold angle is much more favorable at 90 degrees than mine was at 60 and the Coyote isnt very much wider than the Cyclone....also helps that you have the 67 towers rather than the 66 ones.

As far as steering...for quick ratio, you are best off just using a manual rack with 18:1 or less ratio with an under dash EPAS unit....a lot of people are using Toyota or Nissan under dash units now...if you retained the shock towers, went front sump, you could use a 16:1 box and a shelby quick steer arm and come out with very quick steering EPAS indeed

P.S. If you want to spend a lot(even more than Griggs)...you are best off with schwartz:

P.S.S. That is one monster rotisserie/body alignment jig

 

DarkoStoj

Founding Member
Sep 4, 2002
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Detroit
www.pacific-motors.com
If you want the BEST shock tower delete front suspension...you want Griggs...possibly Detroit Speed....rear end, probably Griggs again....but if you are talking removing shock towers...you are already doing major surgery....I wouldn't worry about more. I did see one guy with a Coyote engine that retained towers...notched towers and a mcphereson strut front end, but still...I am willing to bet with a little work you could retain full shock towers, your manifold angle is much more favorable at 90 degrees than mine was at 60 and the Coyote isnt very much wider than the Cyclone....also helps that you have the 67 towers rather than the 66 ones.

As far as steering...for quick ratio, you are best off just using a manual rack with 18:1 or less ratio with an under dash EPAS unit....a lot of people are using Toyota or Nissan under dash units now...if you retained the shock towers, went front sump, you could use a 16:1 box and a shelby quick steer arm and come out with very quick steering EPAS indeed

P.S. If you want to spend a lot(even more than Griggs)...you are best off with schwartz:
Griggs is the absolute best? I took a quick look and their webstie wasn't very good so I'll give them a call.

Also, I always thought Schwartz was great, until my friend helping me build the mustang had first hand experience with them. He built a Chevelle on a Schwartz chassis, and he said it was an absolute nightmare. He had to cut it all up, modify it, and for what he paid he was very unhappy.

Would most manual ratio's be too slow? The TCP kit offers a manual rack, but it's 4 turns lock to lock.
 
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wicked93gs

10 Year Member
Sep 30, 2006
802
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Nashville TN
Griggs is the absolute best? I took a quick look and their webstie wasn't very good so I'll give them a call.

Also, I always thought Schwartz was great, until my friend helping me build the mustang had first hand experience with them. He built a Chevelle on a Schwartz chassis, and he said it was an absolute nightmare. He had to cut it all up, modify it, and for what he paid he was very unhappy.

Would most manual ratio's be too slow? The TCP kit offers a manual rack, but it's 4 turns lock to lock.
Well, Griggs used to be the best as of a few years ago(or so the popular opinion went anyway). As far as manual racks go....you can find them in various ratios, but before you can decide on a rack you need to find what suspension you are going with...the TCP stuff for instance is rear-steer, made for keeping shock towers...and while keeping shock towers has certain advantages...one of the disadvantages is that the steering geometry dictates a higher engine mounting than front steer...especially if you are using rack and pinion instead of a steering box and drag link. In the end, people tend to have the best steering results with a stock steering box over rack and pinion, at least short of one of the high dollar suspensions like Griggs, I don't know the details on those as far as steering capabilities. If you dont like Schwartz, there is also always Roadster Shop:


Looking at it, the control arms are likely to give good negative camber gain...far better than the Mustang II style suspensions...maybe even better than a modified stock setup...but you will certainly have to cut the car extensively to install something like that....same for any high dollar suspension...this is why most people go with SoT or a similar type setup...I wouldn't cut the car you have up at all, the Voodoo engine is awesome...but that mustang is too nice to do anything ut restore...there are plenty of fastback shells much more suited to this type of build
 
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DarkoStoj

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www.pacific-motors.com
Well, Griggs used to be the best as of a few years ago(or so the popular opinion went anyway). As far as manual racks go....you can find them in various ratios, but before you can decide on a rack you need to find what suspension you are going with...the TCP stuff for instance is rear-steer, made for keeping shock towers...and while keeping shock towers has certain advantages...one of the disadvantages is that the steering geometry dictates a higher engine mounting than front steer...especially if you are using rack and pinion instead of a steering box and drag link. In the end, people tend to have the best steering results with a stock steering box over rack and pinion, at least short of one of the high dollar suspensions like Griggs, I don't know the details on those as far as steering capabilities. If you dont like Schwartz, there is also always Roadster Shop:


Looking at it, the control arms are likely to give good negative camber gain...far better than the Mustang II style suspensions...maybe even better than a modified stock setup...but you will certainly have to cut the car extensively to install something like that....same for any high dollar suspension...this is why most people go with SoT or a similar type setup...I wouldn't cut the car you have up at all, the Voodoo engine is awesome...but that mustang is too nice to do anything ut restore...there are plenty of fastback shells much more suited to this type of build
That Roadster shop stuff looks really really cool! There are 2 frame variants and one doesn't cut up the car all that much. Definately going to look into it!

This is the TCP setup I was looking at. You cut the old frame rail out and add in their whole new section. It looks pretty slick and OEM looking.

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TCP_KCST1_inside2_AT.jpg


After doing some research, it seems that without cutting up the rear floor a "bolt in" style 4 link can't get the arms in the proper position to get the anti-squat numbers in the right area. It seems a Torque Arm setup gets you close to a 50/50 without having to cut into the rear floor.

Also, it seems a chassis mounted watts link is the way to go for rear axle centering as well. Offers a way to adjust the pivot point up/down for roll center adjustment, and it keeps the roll center as a fixed part of the chassis instead of having the roll center move around like a panhard bar or having a watts link pivot point mounted to the axle housing.

Something to think about...
 
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wicked93gs

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One thing to note: you can always de-power a power steering rack if you can't find a manual rack with a good enough ratio...it takes some dissasembly and modification, but its easy enough to do(depowered correctly, not just looping the lines)
 

DarkoStoj

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Sep 4, 2002
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www.pacific-motors.com
One thing to note: you can always de-power a power steering rack if you can't find a manual rack with a good enough ratio...it takes some dissasembly and modification, but its easy enough to do(depowered correctly, not just looping the lines)
Ah! Perfect!

I didn't know that was possible reliably. Did some research and think this is what I'll do. Super happy!

Are you familiar with what's needed to de-power it correctly?
 

wicked93gs

10 Year Member
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Ah! Perfect!

I didn't know that was possible reliably. Did some research and think this is what I'll do. Super happy!

Are you familiar with what's needed to de-power it correctly?
Only vaguely, read through it a few times but never actually did it on any cars, its pretty simple though, dissasemble and cut a "seal"(for lack of a better word) internally which stops any fluid causing resistance, then grease and reassemble, fairly common Miata mod:


I am sure it works the same for any power rack though
 

DarkoStoj

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UPDATE:

I have been spending hours every day and talking to different companies and have made some pretty good progress.

One of the biggest things I came up with, is how many companies lack in the engineering department & don't necessarily engineer their parts to work optimally and just focus on having them fit a certain way and look nice.

Most of companies I talk to either said they couldn't give me suspension geometry (things like antisquat, roll center, etc) because they either didn't know what they were, or simply stated they don't give them to customers so they don't get bashed. I mean, that's a big red flag for me....like buying an engine and not being told how much horsepower it has....or a transmission and not knowing what the gear ratio's are...catch my drift?

I am not kidding when I said I talked to every company out there, but I did and it took a while. I don't want to talk about the negative aspects of what I didn't like about most of them so I will focus my discussion on the company I like.

Cortex Racing was the one company that blew me away, and left me really impressed. We spoke on the phone for two hours, and they took the time to answer all my questions with genuine interest. For everyone looking for a top quality product, I would look no further. I am a little different than most, where I enjoy the engineering and setup of the cars. Spending a day at the track and tweaking things like Roll Center, Anti Squat, Spring rates, etc is something I enjoy doing and wanted to make sure I had the ability to do these things.

Also, I don't know if anyone has looked at their cambered rear axle setup. It is one of the coolest things!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have also made some progress on the engine/transmission.

Transmission will be a BMW DCT Getrag 7 Speed (I have 10 of these at the shop). I found a company out of Poland that makes a stand alone transmission controller that will work with a stand alone ECU. I will be using a Motec, with the stand alone transmission controller. I will develop adapter plates for the BMW transmission to bolt up to a Coyote Engine, LS Engine, and Dodge Viper V10 then offer them for sale.

Good progress so far!
 
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wicked93gs

10 Year Member
Sep 30, 2006
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Nashville TN
UPDATE:

I have been spending hours every day and talking to different companies and have made some pretty good progress.

One of the biggest things I came up with, is how many companies lack in the engineering department & don't necessarily engineer their parts to work optimally and just focus on having them fit a certain way and look nice.

Most of companies I talk to either said they couldn't give me suspension geometry (things like antisquat, roll center, etc) because they either didn't know what they were, or simply stated they don't give them to customers so they don't get bashed. I mean, that's a big red flag for me....like buying an engine and not being told how much horsepower it has....or a transmission and not knowing what the gear ratio's are...catch my drift?

I am not kidding when I said I talked to every company out there, but I did and it took a while. I don't want to talk about the negative aspects of what I didn't like about most of them so I will focus my discussion on the company I like.

Cortex Racing was the one company that blew me away, and left me really impressed. We spoke on the phone for two hours, and they took the time to answer all my questions with genuine interest. For everyone looking for a top quality product, I would look no further. I am a little different than most, where I enjoy the engineering and setup of the cars. Spending a day at the track and tweaking things like Roll Center, Anti Squat, Spring rates, etc is something I enjoy doing and wanted to make sure I had the ability to do these things.

Also, I don't know if anyone has looked at their cambered rear axle setup. It is one of the coolest things!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have also made some progress on the engine/transmission.

Transmission will be a BMW DCT Getrag 7 Speed (I have 10 of these at the shop). I found a company out of Poland that makes a stand alone transmission controller that will work with a stand alone ECU. I will be using a Motec, with the stand alone transmission controller. I will develop adapter plates for the BMW transmission to bolt up to a Coyote Engine, LS Engine, and Dodge Viper V10 then offer them for sale.

Good progress so far!
Never heard of Cortex...looks like they make some nice stuff...even if the spindles alone cost more than my entire car when I bought it(though the thing was in pretty sad shape then). Why the DCT trans though? Not a fan of a manual trans? If you are going full performance I would seriously reconsider your base car since there is major surgery involved in significant chassis stiffening, by the time you add as much bracing as you truly want...you are going to regret cutting a car as nice as that.....mine was a rusty old T-Code coupe destined for the scrapyard....you have a J-code fastback in beautiful shape.
 

DarkoStoj

Founding Member
Sep 4, 2002
922
4
19
Detroit
www.pacific-motors.com
Never heard of Cortex...looks like they make some nice stuff...even if the spindles alone cost more than my entire car when I bought it(though the thing was in pretty sad shape then). Why the DCT trans though? Not a fan of a manual trans? If you are going full performance I would seriously reconsider your base car since there is major surgery involved in significant chassis stiffening, by the time you add as much bracing as you truly want...you are going to regret cutting a car as nice as that.....mine was a rusty old T-Code coupe destined for the scrapyard....you have a J-code fastback in beautiful shape.
I love DCT transmissions, they work amazing well for a street car with amazing shifting performance.

The car is going to be along the lines of a GT style car. Won't have a roll cage and setup to be a comfortable cruiser, but also be able to spend all day at the track.

As far as the chassis stiffening goes. Once I get the suspension installed, I am going to take a good look at what we can do to the chassis to help stiffen it. Maybe even build a fixture to mount the chassis with a hydraulic jack to be able to test torsional stiffness.
 
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