The land of boots, mud guards and bonnets, a place where if it don't fit under the hood er, bonnet just cut a hole and let it whine and belch fire right out in the open for all the world to see and be amazed,
I like it!
I like it!
Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.
- Status
-
Sponsors (?)
Kiwi trash takin'
Right there!
The gila monster build is all about how madmike1157 has made stuff work.
Despite what he says, often the first time.
This guy has brought out the details by the noble Gran Torino "Walt teaches Thao" trash talk ,
just because mike is social while he asks the hard questions and has other stuff to say rather than just a fact finding mission.
I've hunted him down here because I'm just knocked out by how he works.
Although I dabble in Electronics and electric control systems all the time,
they have screwed me over,
gain control,
wiring,
sensor polling,
pull up resistors.
Proxy sensors
Anaolgue /Digital conversions.
Power Spectural Density
This is who I am.
"https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/street-bump-birth-android-road-roughness-applications-dean-stevenson/"
I'm lucky because I've had the best helpers in the world.
To see this stuff Mad Mike 1157 is unfolding is a thing of true beauty, people.
I'm a dirt under the nails techncian too, but I love carbs, turbos and the idea that you give a person too much electronic piano wire....and they'll hang 'em selves with it.
I'll do MS, but it'll be to run my Quad YFA Carter carbs.
I've done the electronics stuff, and like MS, but like Pulse Width Modulation, metering rod feedback carbs and cast iron headed i6's a whole lot more.
Right there!
The gila monster build is all about how madmike1157 has made stuff work.
Despite what he says, often the first time.
This guy has brought out the details by the noble Gran Torino "Walt teaches Thao" trash talk ,
just because mike is social while he asks the hard questions and has other stuff to say rather than just a fact finding mission.
I've hunted him down here because I'm just knocked out by how he works.
Although I dabble in Electronics and electric control systems all the time,
they have screwed me over,
gain control,
wiring,
sensor polling,
pull up resistors.
Proxy sensors
Anaolgue /Digital conversions.
Power Spectural Density
This is who I am.
"https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/street-bump-birth-android-road-roughness-applications-dean-stevenson/"
I'm lucky because I've had the best helpers in the world.
To see this stuff Mad Mike 1157 is unfolding is a thing of true beauty, people.
I'm a dirt under the nails techncian too, but I love carbs, turbos and the idea that you give a person too much electronic piano wire....and they'll hang 'em selves with it.
I'll do MS, but it'll be to run my Quad YFA Carter carbs.
I've done the electronics stuff, and like MS, but like Pulse Width Modulation, metering rod feedback carbs and cast iron headed i6's a whole lot more.
- Mar 2, 2015
- 6,811
- 5,849
- 203
All that tech in a '81 mustang.... From a Rav4.
That needs its own thread....with a trailer hitch riding around measuring road smoothness.
We need that in Mexico...best roads and prep ever.
That needs its own thread....with a trailer hitch riding around measuring road smoothness.
We need that in Mexico...best roads and prep ever.
Kiwi trash takin'
Right there!
The gila monster build is all about how madmike1157 has made stuff work.
Despite what he says, often the first time.
This guy has brought out the details by the noble Gran Torino "Walt teaches Thao" trash talk ,
just because mike is social while he asks the hard questions and has other stuff to say rather than just a fact finding mission.
I've hunted him down here because I'm just knocked out by how he works.
Although I dabble in Electronics and electric control systems all the time,
they have screwed me over,
gain control,
wiring,
sensor polling,
pull up resistors.
Proxy sensors
Anaolgue /Digital conversions.
Power Spectural Density
This is who I am.
"https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/street-bump-birth-android-road-roughness-applications-dean-stevenson/"
I'm lucky because I've had the best helpers in the world.
To see this stuff Mad Mike 1157 is unfolding is a thing of true beauty, people.
I'm a dirt under the nails techncian too, but I love carbs, turbos and the idea that you give a person too much electronic piano wire....and they'll hang 'em selves with it.
I'll do MS, but it'll be to run my Quad YFA Carter carbs.
I've done the electronics stuff, and like MS, but like Pulse Width Modulation, metering rod feedback carbs and cast iron headed i6's a whole lot more.
Ive said it before numerous times,..but for the sake of catching up the one, lonely mis-informed individual that doesn't read my every word.....
The engine will not get hot, and stay hot.
There is a functioning 192 degree t stat in the car, and I've checked it in a pot of boiling water.
Put the car in traffic, stop the airflow through the radiator, and as a result the engine temp rises. Eventually it'll reach about 202,..and the fans come on and it'll cycle between 192, and 202...
But just as soon as the car gets moving and air starts moving through the radiator, it'll drop like a rock. The running temp on the interstate is around 150 degrees...
I know that 150 degrees is actually a bad thing....I know that the engine hasn't reached it's full thermal expansion rate, and things like ring seal, and piston sidewall clearance aren't optimal..
Ford I-6's are notorious for wearing out the #1 cylinder because it runs significantly cooler than the other 5, because in the stock configuration....the water pump is directly in front of that cylinder.
I am not using a stock water pump,..I have three hoses distributing water to the block alternately.
It looks like this:
it's the hose that's obscured that I'm considering here...the one at the front of the engine going to a plate that used to have a water pump bolted there..
This shiny one..
Even though the T stat would typically be closed,and shouldn't allow any more water into the engine until it opens up...I'm thinking this has to be the source of my issue. Because of the fact that I have an electric WP putting water into that hole ( (and the other two in the side of the block)
The water temp senders that are about 8" immediately above that water hose MUST be seeing that cold water. That cold water is somehow circulating, elsewise the water would get hot in the engine...
What If I remove and block the short hose that's going to the WP block off plate?
Not as easy as it sounds...That's a -12 braided hose that I jammed over a nipple that's threaded into that block off plate
I probably won't be able to get it to slide off. MOF, I'll probably have to make an entirely different block off plate because of that. I'll also have to buy a -12 cap to "plug" that hose nipple where the hose end is presently screwed on.
Needless to say, that if I go through all of that and the engine doesn't get hot...and I remove all of this stuff..
I'm gonna get hot.
How is water recirculating currently? Maybe it isn't, and because the senders are so close to the water source they are constantly getting exposed to the cooler water?
I don't want to chase my tail when there is another way to fix this..
At one time,..I had an output in the MS dedicated to the WP...and was able to tell the pump to turn on and off. I lost that output for some reason in all of the firmware updates that the I've went through..It is also one of the underlying reasons that I want to restore that functionality.
At the same time,..if I do get that running it'll mean that I will be constantly triggering the waterpump in an effort to control that temp based on a set hysteresis in the output settings ( On at this temp,...off at that temp) Once I allow the water temp to rise in the engine hot enough to open the T stat,.I can tell the pump to turn on, flush cool water through the engine, and shut back off after that T stat closes again...
Worried about how quickly that "event" will start reoccuring once the WP is the main player in how to keep my stinkin engine at operating temperature...and whether or not constantly turning the pump on and back off will shorten its lifespan as a result.
The engine will not get hot, and stay hot.
There is a functioning 192 degree t stat in the car, and I've checked it in a pot of boiling water.
Put the car in traffic, stop the airflow through the radiator, and as a result the engine temp rises. Eventually it'll reach about 202,..and the fans come on and it'll cycle between 192, and 202...
But just as soon as the car gets moving and air starts moving through the radiator, it'll drop like a rock. The running temp on the interstate is around 150 degrees...
I know that 150 degrees is actually a bad thing....I know that the engine hasn't reached it's full thermal expansion rate, and things like ring seal, and piston sidewall clearance aren't optimal..
Ford I-6's are notorious for wearing out the #1 cylinder because it runs significantly cooler than the other 5, because in the stock configuration....the water pump is directly in front of that cylinder.
I am not using a stock water pump,..I have three hoses distributing water to the block alternately.
It looks like this:
it's the hose that's obscured that I'm considering here...the one at the front of the engine going to a plate that used to have a water pump bolted there..
This shiny one..
Even though the T stat would typically be closed,and shouldn't allow any more water into the engine until it opens up...I'm thinking this has to be the source of my issue. Because of the fact that I have an electric WP putting water into that hole ( (and the other two in the side of the block)
The water temp senders that are about 8" immediately above that water hose MUST be seeing that cold water. That cold water is somehow circulating, elsewise the water would get hot in the engine...
What If I remove and block the short hose that's going to the WP block off plate?
Not as easy as it sounds...That's a -12 braided hose that I jammed over a nipple that's threaded into that block off plate
I probably won't be able to get it to slide off. MOF, I'll probably have to make an entirely different block off plate because of that. I'll also have to buy a -12 cap to "plug" that hose nipple where the hose end is presently screwed on.
Needless to say, that if I go through all of that and the engine doesn't get hot...and I remove all of this stuff..
I'm gonna get hot.
How is water recirculating currently? Maybe it isn't, and because the senders are so close to the water source they are constantly getting exposed to the cooler water?
I don't want to chase my tail when there is another way to fix this..
At one time,..I had an output in the MS dedicated to the WP...and was able to tell the pump to turn on and off. I lost that output for some reason in all of the firmware updates that the I've went through..It is also one of the underlying reasons that I want to restore that functionality.
At the same time,..if I do get that running it'll mean that I will be constantly triggering the waterpump in an effort to control that temp based on a set hysteresis in the output settings ( On at this temp,...off at that temp) Once I allow the water temp to rise in the engine hot enough to open the T stat,.I can tell the pump to turn on, flush cool water through the engine, and shut back off after that T stat closes again...
Worried about how quickly that "event" will start reoccuring once the WP is the main player in how to keep my stinkin engine at operating temperature...and whether or not constantly turning the pump on and back off will shorten its lifespan as a result.
Water pump life would not be affected at all. There are thousands of applications that have electric devices cycle on and off all the time. Vehicles with return less fuel systems cycle the fuel pump to maintain a set pressure, fuel injectors are cycled constantly, intermittent wipers and on and on and on. Don't worry about the water pump.
HotFox
15 Year Member
What about restricting the inlet of the water pump? Maybe a washer allowing half the volume?
Then it may hinder the things ability to keep the engine cool in traffic,...I think the on/off thing may be the best solution...I just gotta figure out what happened to my output.
MY 85 GT
10 Year Member
How about making your own T-stat like a restrictor type drill a hole in it...start small work your way up??. just an idea..
Let me introduce you to my friend PWM...
Use a PWM controller to vary the speed of the water pump to keep the coolant temp where you want it. There may be such an animal built into the MS to do just that. @a91what where are you?
Or use a PWM controller to do the same thing for the radiator fans....
Use a PWM controller to vary the speed of the water pump to keep the coolant temp where you want it. There may be such an animal built into the MS to do just that. @a91what where are you?
Or use a PWM controller to do the same thing for the radiator fans....
Hmm. As far as the software is concerned there is nothing I can think of in tunerstudio that would support that. We could use an output not meant for this but manipulate the tables to make it happen. .ini files can be altered at will, it could be done I think.Let me introduce you to my friend PWM...
Use a PWM controller to vary the speed of the water pump to keep the coolant temp where you want it. There may be such an animal built into the MS to do just that. @a91what where are you?
Or use a PWM controller to do the same thing for the radiator fans....
Then we would need a circuit heavy enough to carry a load that large.
I believe a dcc controller would be a better fit and simpler.
I like the way you think outside the box J.
The DC Control would indeed be simple but somewhat expensive.
A power mosfet will handle the water pump current with no problem.
There's a circuit that I designed to run an electric fan; it will easily run an electric water pump. If you want a DIY PWM controller, email me and I will send you the prototype drawings of a fan or electric water pump controller that is similar in function to the DC Control unit. It is a build it and troubleshoot it yourself item. I will not build or troubleshoot units, so it is not suitable for anyone who isn't really good with electronics.
Last edited:
Huh, what'd you say?Now your fitting in.
However you seem very versed in ecu hardware I would love your technical jargon over in the megasquirt help thread. We will just need to water it down a bit so it's easy for the regulars to understand.
I think several cars nowadays have closable grill fins. In your spare time, build a remote radiator block off....after you find your missing MS I/O ports. That's probably easier than taking the engine apart.
I think I found it.I think several cars nowadays have closable grill fins. In your spare time, build a remote radiator block off....after you find your missing MS I/O ports. That's probably easier than taking the engine apart.
( and it doesn't involve closing off my grille)
It still seems wrong to me, but I'm hooking it up and testing it today anyway.
Well...hit a milestone today...
No car progress.....MOF the car did its level best to poke me in the eye all day.
The milestone is that I was able to spend the whole damn day down there trying to fix it.
And I'm not in mortal pain because of it.
I don't know whether it was the doctor, or the therapist,.....one of them told me that this day would come.
One where I didn't feel like I was so sore all I could do was to lay down and die.
I sat in either the driver seat, the floor next to the driver door ( cannot kneel), and the passenger seat trying to get THE GODDAMNED ECU TO WORK.
It should be so simple really.....A MSII lets you wire outputs in anticipation of using them to do things......
Things like........ohhhhhh running a cooling fan,....running a water pump,...triggering your idle valve when you turn on your AC...
My ECU is doin good just to run my engine.
Try as I may, that " simple circuit" phcked me....over, and over again.
I feel so used..
There is something wrong with the circuit I'm fighting with. Despite the fact that the people at DIY tell me that there's nothing wrong with my system,.....they're all wrong...I've spent too many hours chasing my tail to only end up at the exact same conclusion..
If I had a AR15, and a bump stock,....id put 800 rounds into that piece of sht.
No car progress.....MOF the car did its level best to poke me in the eye all day.
The milestone is that I was able to spend the whole damn day down there trying to fix it.
And I'm not in mortal pain because of it.
I don't know whether it was the doctor, or the therapist,.....one of them told me that this day would come.
One where I didn't feel like I was so sore all I could do was to lay down and die.
I sat in either the driver seat, the floor next to the driver door ( cannot kneel), and the passenger seat trying to get THE GODDAMNED ECU TO WORK.
It should be so simple really.....A MSII lets you wire outputs in anticipation of using them to do things......
Things like........ohhhhhh running a cooling fan,....running a water pump,...triggering your idle valve when you turn on your AC...
My ECU is doin good just to run my engine.
Try as I may, that " simple circuit" phcked me....over, and over again.
I feel so used..
There is something wrong with the circuit I'm fighting with. Despite the fact that the people at DIY tell me that there's nothing wrong with my system,.....they're all wrong...I've spent too many hours chasing my tail to only end up at the exact same conclusion..
If I had a AR15, and a bump stock,....id put 800 rounds into that piece of sht.
That's electronics dude.
I've been down this road before on other projects. You can get other stuff to run it if you can't make MS2 do it, but since you've got follow up help...put DIY to work.
Other stuff, well, there is all sorts of Monster Motor Controller crud you can use, but its going down the Linux path and on to a whole nuther ball game of knocked up electronica.
Last edited:
HotFox
15 Year Member
That's great about the lack of pain especially in such a short time!
Understand the ECU is capable of regulating the water temp if working properly. You do know that you could just use a fan controller like you probably had on the other car? I use a fan controller because I don't have a ECU. I know you like to use what is already there in front of you but a DCC or Flexolite fan controler would get it done! DCC can suck it as I burned one up after only a couple years! Replaced it with Flexolite and all is good to soft start that big Lincoln fan.
Scott
Understand the ECU is capable of regulating the water temp if working properly. You do know that you could just use a fan controller like you probably had on the other car? I use a fan controller because I don't have a ECU. I know you like to use what is already there in front of you but a DCC or Flexolite fan controler would get it done! DCC can suck it as I burned one up after only a couple years! Replaced it with Flexolite and all is good to soft start that big Lincoln fan.
Scott
- Status