Build Thread 1978 Fairmont: Love it when a plan comes together

a91what

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Mike.. you gonna back the timing down? I really think you should. That 2* that first turbo dude insisted on you adding has me having keyboard fits.
 
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droopie85gt

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Just sitting here, waiting on my customer to get out of finance..When he’s done, It won’t be that much longer before I’m gone today..
That wastegate is supposed to show up today. I’m actually almost Jonesing to get it bolted back into that s tube, and do the pressure test..And hope that it holds pressure. Then mount it.
Then not be able to drive it for a week...Coldfront coming in tonight.
it was 70 on mon, 70 on tues, 70 on wed.
It’s raining and 65 today..

Tomorrow through.......fck.....the next ten days....it’s either rain, or like 45 for the high..:nonono:

I guess you're not getting the ice storm we had overnight here. Actually at one point a Thunder Freezing rain storm @ 4 this morning. Luckily, we were just south of the freeze line. The trees got about 1/4" of ice on them but the roads this morning were clear.

So what brand of faux Pro did you buy? I was looking last night at Amazon...one that has decent reviews AND has an external mic would be good. I'm looking at Amazon and got a headache because they all have names like Zumee, or Blubee and look the same but the specs are all the place. I got a headache and went to bed.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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The wastegate gets here, and i immediately go downstairs, and bolt that dude onto my newly made Flexi-S pipe.
The New gate uses V band clamps instead of the weird clam shell clamps the old gate came with.
The seat has a 3 angle valve job as opposed to the single angle seat the old one came with. The new gate came with several extra springs in addition to the 14 psi spring that was in the gate.
The new gate uses a “ collar” like a coil over does to hold the dome on,..the old one uses screws around the perimeter.

When last I tested the old gate, I managed to get the flange tight enough to stop leaking around the flange, leaving only the valve seat itself passing air..

Now that the new flange was bolted up fairly tight, I put pressure to it.

Its leaking everywhere. At the Flange, and all around the seat. I take it back apart and make sure I haven’t got some piece of embedded sht trapped between the sealing surfaces. I didn’t see anything, so I put it back together.
I tighten the piss outta the V band clamp, then put pressure to it....

Now, only the seat is leaking......Which has me wondering why they bothered to put a 3 angle valve job on it, if it’s gonna leak with 2-3 psi of air pressure.

Now I’m pissed.

I figure I’m all in now,....I’ve bolted the thing up, and scarred it enough with the V band clamps to not be able to send it back as “ un-installed”...I decide to put it on the engine, and start it.

Which I did.

When it first started, I could detect the exhaust leak from the smell, but the exhaust leak noise that was always there before was now gone. The two ports on the gate dome were still open,...so I put my fingers over them to see if that made any difference......inconclusive.

All the while the engine is running, and I’m sniffing and smelling the v band flanges to try and determine if I can smell exhaust....After awhile as everything got hotter,...I could no longer smell anything...( except hot exhaust)

Did it thermally expand enough to seal itself.

So here I am again... Hopeful that I’ve solved my power loss issue, but doubtful that anything significant has changed.

To Steve: @a91what ...let’s remove the 2 degrees.. Bring in the water meth at 14 psi.
To Jeff: @TOOLOW91 ..Aside from timing and putting the watermeth in early,..I ain’t changing anything else..it’ll still make 20+ psi the next time I get to take the car out.

I guess you're not getting the ice storm we had overnight here. Actually at one point a Thunder Freezing rain storm @ 4 this morning. Luckily, we were just south of the freeze line. The trees got about 1/4" of ice on them but the roads this morning were clear.

So what brand of faux Pro did you buy? I was looking last night at Amazon...one that has decent reviews AND has an external mic would be good. I'm looking at Amazon and got a headache because they all have names like Zumee, or Blubee and look the same but the specs are all the place. I got a headache and went to bed.
It may as well be Dung Fao...( For all the names these cameras are coming under..they all seem similar to me...Actually I think the name was Asko...maybe... :shrug:) The Amazon camera had the most bang for the buck. It came with two batteries, a waterproof case, a wrist band remote, and several mounting solutions.
The Chinee cameras that just came yesterday, were pretty basic,..only coming with a basic few accessories to get them up and running..
I got online ( Youtube) and found one guy that bought a Chinee accessory bundle that works with all of these cameras for like 30 bucks under the brand name ..”Neewer”...So much :poo: you’ll be scratching your head as to how/ when you’ll ever use it..(This coming from the voice of experience).
For me, The founder of the royal order of boxheads, The best camera (Go Pro) has been charged, with a 64gb Micro SD card installed, sitting on a tripod in the corner of my garage in a mini-studio like scenario..set up for my future commentary,..with lights and everything..only to end up sitting there off.........because I’m intimidated by having to sit in front of it and talk.

This coming from one of the biggest internet ass holes ever to peck out letters on a keyboard.
 
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KZGUNS

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This one is for sure turbosmart? Can you lap the seat with some valve lapping compound? Hell at this point just buy the cheapest Chinese one you can find and see if it leaks
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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This one is for sure turbosmart? Can you lap the seat with some valve lapping compound? Hell at this point just buy the cheapest Chinese one you can find and see if it leaks
it’s 469.00 direct from a turbosmart dealer, turbosmart.
I know from past experience, that you don’t cheese out on a chinee wastegate. you can get away with the turbo, but the gate is definitely not up for consideration when deciding to cheap out.
 
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90sickfox

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I hope you feel a difference. Thats a bunch of money to spend for nuffin'.
 

rdharper02

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Right on, I think I'm more excited about this than you are Mike. My prediction........New wastegate, new beast
 

a91what

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well.. lets assume thermal expansion will indeed play a role in the sealing of the wastegate. lets hope this does make a difference.

worst case... we apply pressure to the top port [requires 4 port EBC] during spool and then let the gate open once its reached target pressure. this will hold the gate closed stopping any leakage.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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I called turbosmart again trying to ask them about the viability of my test to determine if the valve is sealing.
Again, I had to leave a message.
This makes the third message ive left them.
For me, a guy who makes purchase decisions based on how well a manufacturer back up their products after you buy them...

It doesnt speak well of this brand.

My next call went back to the guys I bought the turbo, and gate from..I posed The same question to them that ive been trying to ask Turbosmart..
" Does the valve seat have to get hot in order to fully seal the exhaust from internally leaking past the valve?

Fortunately, the guy claims to have a direct line to turbosmart, because he is a dealer for them..he stated that he'd ask them for me, and get back to me with the answer.

So, im waiting on that answer...my guess/hope is that heat is required in order to get this thing fully sealed just like other parts of the engine..
Its done though..now with 1/4" hard lines added.
1613154538857314979793706774928.jpg

Im trying to decide if I want to cut them in the middle, and add rubber hose in between to account for any expansion, but I just don't see that that gate is gonna move that much, especially when its bolted to the exhaust in two places.
1613154715311258733502357848384.jpg
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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I think those lines are gonna crack from engine vibration
But what do I know :shrug: just ask matt (I think I'll refer to him as 'mutt' from now on.)
 
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droopie85gt

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Hmm, exhaust valves don't need heat to seal. Are you certain you didn't get another Chinese copy of a turbosmart gate? I'm certain the one I bought is Chinese so I guess I need to see how bad it leaks.
 
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TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
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I wouldn’t run anything but a tial or possibly a JGS but in reality it’s tial all the way for me
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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Hmm, exhaust valves don't need heat to seal. Are you certain you didn't get another Chinese copy of a turbosmart gate? I'm certain the one I bought is Chinese so I guess I need to see how bad it leaks.
Yes...I’m positive that neither the first, or the new one are Chinee...It’s the seat/flange.

And wastegate valves aren’t being held against the seat by 200#’s of spring pressure..so don’t be comparing 14 pounds of wastegate seat pressure to 200 pounds of cylinder head pressure..

Jeeves.

The old gate wouldn’t seal to save its ass. I built a new S tube using a new flange, and now,...you can tighten it enough to seal the flange, but the seat still leaked..because I have no reference for how bad “bad” is, I have no clue if tye leak was bad.
After bolting the new gate on, and finding out that it too leaked at the seat,..I was faced with the fact that, again there was no way to compare the previous “ bad“ to the new “bad”...so ....

Its bolted in.
 

MustangIIMatt

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But what do I know :shrug: just ask matt (I think I'll refer to him as 'mutt' from now on.)
I have no idea. The Hot Rod Lincoln engine is going to be my first turbocharged engine that I've ever owned, and only my second time dealing with an aftermarket turbo.

OEM turbo setups from BMW and Hyundai just... work... for the most part (the N20 from BMW is the only thing I've replaced a turbo on in the 13 months I've been there).

This kind of ish is why I lurk in Mike's threads so much, so I can get me some learnin' done.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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And no drive yet? You drove a Mach 1 on slicks in the winter in Counciltucky.... Get out there and see what’s what, just watch out for the garage door frame.
I drove the car home slowly back then. Comparatively, it was a 350 hp stock headed windsor. The plan for the monster is to drive it as fast as it will go up to 7000 rpm. A cold, potentially wet road isn’t the best place to be trying that.



Not really the same.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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I have no idea. The Hot Rod Lincoln engine is going to be my first turbocharged engine that I've ever owned, and only my second time dealing with an aftermarket turbo.

OEM turbo setups from BMW and Hyundai just... work... for the most part (the N20 from BMW is the only thing I've replaced a turbo on in the 13 months I've been there).

This kind of ish is why I lurk in Mike's threads so much, so I can get me some learnin' done.
The only learning you’ll get here, is how to throw your money away..

over, and over, and over.
 

droopie85gt

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The only learning you’ll get here, is how to throw your money away..

over, and over, and over.

I think that goes for just about every build thread ever made anywhere. Every now and then you get a good nugget of info that doesn't require digging a hole, throwing money in, topping it with gasoline and throwing a match on top.