- Jul 7, 2005
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Build Thread 1978 Fairmont. I bet somebody back home’s thinkin’…I wonder why he don’t write..?
- Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
- Start date
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manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
The click you heard was probably just the trans going in. I often have to run those big ZF's in with a selection or longer bolts in the older F250's and the like. they pop a bit when they slam home. In the older cars like a 69 Camaro where you can install the bellhousing and clutch first. You can push on the clutch and the trans will go home real quick. Watch your fingers type quick.
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
Spoke with Mccleod today, fully prepared to try and buy myself whatever dude would tell me I needed to make this problem go away. Told him what I had, and he confirmed that everything I have in place should work.
It “ should” work…
“But here’s the dilemma…it don’t. I’m fairly certain that the t/o bearing is bled, but to be sure, I’m waiting on the speed bleeder just so I can rule that out.”
I ask him the “what if’s”. I ask him what if I did push the pilot out of that insert, and now the input shaft isn’t supported there…
“It would definitely cause the issues you’re having”.
But I don’t know that…or I won’t know that until I get a chance to bleed the clutch, and ultimately pull that trans.
It “ should” work…
“But here’s the dilemma…it don’t. I’m fairly certain that the t/o bearing is bled, but to be sure, I’m waiting on the speed bleeder just so I can rule that out.”
I ask him the “what if’s”. I ask him what if I did push the pilot out of that insert, and now the input shaft isn’t supported there…
“It would definitely cause the issues you’re having”.
But I don’t know that…or I won’t know that until I get a chance to bleed the clutch, and ultimately pull that trans.
So…..
I get off early tonight…waiting on Kate to get home..
I turn on the TV,…..surf to the history channel, and see that there has been this woman archeologist has been surching for Alexander the Greats tomb for like 20 years..
These guys are digging and digging, crawling through tunnels half filled with water 33’ under the modern day city of what??? Damascus? Alexandria?….( i don’t know for sure,…and it’s not relevant to my point here)
She put this tunnel rat in this half submerged tunnel,…looking for a way into ATG’s tomb. He crawls like 33 meters,…when they are confronted with a wall of dirt..
* Some ancient dude has sealed this path to the tomb..
The Commentator is talking about this “ crushing defeat”…how this means that they are gonna have to move the entire dig, and drill down some other place and start over….
I think: Sht bitch…you outta be laying under my car when it won’t go into gear….talk about crushing defeat.
I get off early tonight…waiting on Kate to get home..
I turn on the TV,…..surf to the history channel, and see that there has been this woman archeologist has been surching for Alexander the Greats tomb for like 20 years..
These guys are digging and digging, crawling through tunnels half filled with water 33’ under the modern day city of what??? Damascus? Alexandria?….( i don’t know for sure,…and it’s not relevant to my point here)
She put this tunnel rat in this half submerged tunnel,…looking for a way into ATG’s tomb. He crawls like 33 meters,…when they are confronted with a wall of dirt..
* Some ancient dude has sealed this path to the tomb..
The Commentator is talking about this “ crushing defeat”…how this means that they are gonna have to move the entire dig, and drill down some other place and start over….
I think: Sht bitch…you outta be laying under my car when it won’t go into gear….talk about crushing defeat.
Husky44
10 Year Member
See!!! Golden-brownish...Give the man a cookie...that IS the only part on this car that remains “factory”
Like a skid mark after you wash the fruit o the looms twice.
Just caught up to real time.
Why are you watching TV when you could be pulling the transmission?
Mike, take this with a grain of salt as I only bothered to read back a page to see what was going on.
When I did my manual swap, I had the same problem, couldn't get it in gear. I fought it and pulled the trans twice and reinstalled it. The clutch fork moved in and out as it should. The TOB was on the right way. Everything down to the flywheel was brand new.
Ended up that the disc somehow was "glued" (I use that term as I have no other way to describe it) to the flywheel. I had to pull the pressure plate off and pry the disc off. I put it all back together and it has worked flawlessly since.
I can't say with any certainty that this is what you are experiencing, just wanted to offer it as a last resort when you've tried everything else. I've probably missed half the story but I find I am only here in short bursts and infrequently so I lose track of a lot of builds
When I did my manual swap, I had the same problem, couldn't get it in gear. I fought it and pulled the trans twice and reinstalled it. The clutch fork moved in and out as it should. The TOB was on the right way. Everything down to the flywheel was brand new.
Ended up that the disc somehow was "glued" (I use that term as I have no other way to describe it) to the flywheel. I had to pull the pressure plate off and pry the disc off. I put it all back together and it has worked flawlessly since.
I can't say with any certainty that this is what you are experiencing, just wanted to offer it as a last resort when you've tried everything else. I've probably missed half the story but I find I am only here in short bursts and infrequently so I lose track of a lot of builds
I got my speed bleeder hooked up, and watched clear brake fluid pump through the line that went into the reservoir. I choked down inevitability, and removed the transmission.
It fought me every inch of the way.
The plate I made to keep the transmission from falling off the jack worked as intended. Right up until the part where I had to get the thing out from under the car.
It was there that it fell off.
I didn’t expect that i’d have to remove the trans out from under the car, as I expected that i would be able to just push the thing on the jack back far enough, but as low as the car was…that wasn’t happening. Now i’m in-between the proverbial rock and a hard place. The car needs to go up higher, but the trans is now on the jack. I try to move the trans as far to one side as i could, and no sooner did i start pushin, and pullin, off that bitch comes and clanks down on the floor.
And promptly starts puking 75-90 gear oil out both ends.
I drag the thing out from under the car bitchin up a storm, because it’s….75-90 gear oil that is now all over the place. i destroy about 4 microfiber towels cleaning that up, and slide back under the car, hopin to find the smokin gun that is preventing this thing from going into gear..
The needle pilot bearing is where it’s supposed to be, nothing looks bent or fcked up…Except this:
You can see an inconsistent contact pattern on the pressure plate diaphragm. several of the teeth are showing very little contact, while others are showing a much heavier impression. Also, not having ever pulled apart the one other manual transmission i’ve ever had after installing it,I don’t know where the thing is supposed to make contact with these diaphragm fingers…mine is obviously making contact in about 1/4” from the ends.
The sleeve that rides on the t/o bearing looks just like this too,…3/4’s of it exhibiting signs of contact, 1/4 of it no contact at all.
When you measure the pressure plate fingers 180 degrees apart from each other they are between .030, and .040 difference,..from what i understand, this is acceptable. I’ve been talking between the adapter maker, and Spec..the adapter guy is telling me to throw away the cap, and just let the T/O bearing make contact where it normally would..
( when you think about it..it should work better) it’ll contact the diaphragm fingers 1/4” higher, at the ends, which should increase the amount of release that the T/O bearing is capable of generating.
It fought me every inch of the way.
The plate I made to keep the transmission from falling off the jack worked as intended. Right up until the part where I had to get the thing out from under the car.
It was there that it fell off.
I didn’t expect that i’d have to remove the trans out from under the car, as I expected that i would be able to just push the thing on the jack back far enough, but as low as the car was…that wasn’t happening. Now i’m in-between the proverbial rock and a hard place. The car needs to go up higher, but the trans is now on the jack. I try to move the trans as far to one side as i could, and no sooner did i start pushin, and pullin, off that bitch comes and clanks down on the floor.
And promptly starts puking 75-90 gear oil out both ends.
I drag the thing out from under the car bitchin up a storm, because it’s….75-90 gear oil that is now all over the place. i destroy about 4 microfiber towels cleaning that up, and slide back under the car, hopin to find the smokin gun that is preventing this thing from going into gear..
The needle pilot bearing is where it’s supposed to be, nothing looks bent or fcked up…Except this:
The sleeve that rides on the t/o bearing looks just like this too,…3/4’s of it exhibiting signs of contact, 1/4 of it no contact at all.
When you measure the pressure plate fingers 180 degrees apart from each other they are between .030, and .040 difference,..from what i understand, this is acceptable. I’ve been talking between the adapter maker, and Spec..the adapter guy is telling me to throw away the cap, and just let the T/O bearing make contact where it normally would..
( when you think about it..it should work better) it’ll contact the diaphragm fingers 1/4” higher, at the ends, which should increase the amount of release that the T/O bearing is capable of generating.
it’s back in. I did not reinstall the cap that sits on the T/O bearing as advised to by the adapter supplier. The tech guy at Spec that i was emailing wasn’t even aware that thing was included in the clutch kit. It’s not completely finished, still need to install, and hook up the starter, hook up the hydraulic lines, and bleed that t/o bearing, Driveshaft, shifter, console and seat,…and i’m back to square one.
I still have the old pressure plate from when I changed the clutch in my T5 a month or so ago. It's been sitting outside so it's kinda rusty, but you can clearly see the contact pattern is right at the end of the teeth. So you are on to something there.
I agree,…i’m saving up my confetti for the big “ it runs” announcement.I still have the old pressure plate from when I changed the clutch in my T5 a month or so ago. It's been sitting outside so it's kinda rusty, but you can clearly see the contact pattern is right at the end of the teeth. So you are on to something there.
at the same time..
Im also looking into nearby cliffs to push this fcker off of if it don’t.
As usual,…I start second guessing myself when there is any doubt that i’ve done something right.
I never dealt with what shoulda been the number one problem that was there when I pulled it back apart:
#1. I had to pry the freakin thing apart. It was Almost like the input shaft was pressed into the pilot bearing. After unbolting it, i had to pry the trans off of the engine. I had to pry the trans all the way past the block dowels. At that time , I fully expected that when I finally got it apart and looked at the pilot bearing, it was gonna be phcked all the hell up.
But it wasn’t. When i looked in there, the thing was just as it was supposed to be. When I slid the clutch disc alignment tool into the disc, the thing went it perfectly.
So I never looked at that area again, and focused on the pressure plate.
When I put it back together, it still required that I pull it home with bolts. When it got w/i 3/4 of an inch of being “ bolted” it stopped. I had to put the trans in gear, and pry a little on the tail shaft yoke, it popped, and I was able to tighten the thing up the rest of the way.
And I’m laying there this morning thinking ” Do I finish putting this thing back together, or while it’s in this “ in between” state, take it back down, and deal with the issue of why did I have to pry this thing apart?” Literally…Do i want to go one step forward, and then three steps back if there’s something still wrong that I haven’t fixed, or hood my nose, close my eyes, and continue forward?
I never dealt with what shoulda been the number one problem that was there when I pulled it back apart:
#1. I had to pry the freakin thing apart. It was Almost like the input shaft was pressed into the pilot bearing. After unbolting it, i had to pry the trans off of the engine. I had to pry the trans all the way past the block dowels. At that time , I fully expected that when I finally got it apart and looked at the pilot bearing, it was gonna be phcked all the hell up.
But it wasn’t. When i looked in there, the thing was just as it was supposed to be. When I slid the clutch disc alignment tool into the disc, the thing went it perfectly.
So I never looked at that area again, and focused on the pressure plate.
When I put it back together, it still required that I pull it home with bolts. When it got w/i 3/4 of an inch of being “ bolted” it stopped. I had to put the trans in gear, and pry a little on the tail shaft yoke, it popped, and I was able to tighten the thing up the rest of the way.
And I’m laying there this morning thinking ” Do I finish putting this thing back together, or while it’s in this “ in between” state, take it back down, and deal with the issue of why did I have to pry this thing apart?” Literally…Do i want to go one step forward, and then three steps back if there’s something still wrong that I haven’t fixed, or hood my nose, close my eyes, and continue forward?
- Mar 2, 2015
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I'd have to figure out why. The clutch is on the flywheel. The TOB is on the transmission. Could there be a misalignment adding to your issue ? If its jammed in the pilot it'll keep the input shaft spinning making it hard to get in gear regardless of what that TOB does. That would explain the uneven contact. There are several variables that could cause the bellhousing and transmission to not be square.
Last edited:
- Jul 7, 2005
- 1,563
- 1,197
- 164
I agree that you should put the focus on what sounds like a misalignment of the transmission to the engine. You very well that this is going to keep you up at night, so go ahead and tackle it now.
yeah, how much has to get put together before you can test it out?what am I say'n? You prolly fixed it on your lunch break.
I had a similar problem when changing my clutch. Turns out the plastic clutch alignment tool I had wasn't good. It was close, but I couldn't get the transmission in the last 3/4 inch or so. I had to use a c-clamp to push the clutch fork in to release the clutch plate, and then everything slid together nicely.
So, if your clutch alignment tool is plastic and new for this project, it might be the problem.
So, if your clutch alignment tool is plastic and new for this project, it might be the problem.
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