1988 Notch Fuel Injected or 4 barrel Carb which is better!

smithsbroncster

New Member
Apr 28, 2011
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Lincolnton, NC
The Cars Fuel Injected now but i cant get the Car to run, well its running but after a minute or so itll act as if battieres going dead or running outta gas and ive done everything possible, new fuel filter, new batterie, new altanator.

So ive decided since i got the stuff to do it why not go carb, everyone i talk to says carbs easyier to work with any ways whats yalls opinion on the situation.

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:shrug:

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Gearbanger 101

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Aug 10, 2002
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Those people you've been talking to that say going backwards to a carb, over fuel injection are what I and most others like to call "wrong". Do yourself a huge favour and work out the bugs with your EFI. It's better in every respect than any archaic carb set up. You're only in any way further ahead with carb if you're starting from scratch...and even then that's only in initial cost. You still lose the benefit of fine tuning for all weather and altituded conditions, fuel economy, horsepower, etc, etc.

So it runs fine for a few minutes, then dies? When you remove the gas cap, is there any pressure in the tank? If so, try checking to see if your vent line is pinched or plugged. Of course run it for codes. That should be your number one diagnostic method before just throwing parts and money at it.

Also...be specific. Does it act as though the battery is going dead, or as though it's running out of fuel? Converting to a carbeurator won't solve either of those issues.
 

jrichker

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Those people you've been talking to that say going backwards to a carb, over fuel injection are what I and most others like to call "wrong". Do yourself a huge favour and work out the bugs with your EFI. It's better in every respect than any archaic carb set up. You're only in any way further ahead with carb if you're starting from scratch...and even then that's only in initial cost. You still lose the benefit of fine tuning for all weather and altituded conditions, fuel economy, horsepower, etc, etc.

So it runs fine for a few minutes, then dies? When you remove the gas cap, is there any pressure in the tank? If so, try checking to see if your vent line is pinched or plugged. Of course run it for codes. That should be your number one diagnostic method before just throwing parts and money at it.

Also...be specific. Does it act as though the battery is going dead, or as though it's running out of fuel? Converting to a carbeurator won't solve either of those issues.

You just got some excellent advice. I suggest you take it.:nice:
 

BlackGT89

Member
Dec 16, 2002
774
5
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Huntsville, AL
I could not agree more, especially if you drive your car in winter at all. Those of us who can remember what it was like to live with carbs don't really miss them. In cold weather the chokes would either hang closed or would not close enough. They would leak externally, they would flood the engine internally, they run lean sometimes and you would have to change the jets (or vice versa), the back barrels would either hang open and flood the engine at idle or else they would not open properly when they were supposed to, one backfire and the power valve would blow out. They have to be rebuilt constantly... :notnice:

Between carb problems and point/distributor problems before EFI and electronic ignition it's a wonder cars ran as well as they did !
 

Mustang5L5

i'm familiar with penetration
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Feb 18, 2001
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I don't been like my lawn mowers carbed.

Work through the troubles woth the EFI. Start by running the check engine codes since 1988 don't have fuctioning check engine lights
 

lxman

Member
Nov 5, 2010
279
14
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Avondale, AZ
My car is carbed and I love the throttle response that it has. I lived in North Dakota before I moved here to Arizona and I never had problems with my choke. I used to seeing temps down to -60. But, however its only carbed till I get all that I need to make it fuel injected. Emissions wise carb is terrible to have unless you live or have your car registered in a state that doesn't do emissions checks. You won't pass. But it just really comes down to what you want. You can listen to what everyone say, but ultimately its you car and you decision bro! Best of luck to you either way!
 

smithsbroncster

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Apr 28, 2011
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Lincolnton, NC
untitled.jpg


Heres my setup, its mass air, Cobra fuel injection

Thats my thing im being specfic as i can, I crank the Car and itll run then bog out and cut off. but its running my batterie dead every time, but the alts good and batterie.
But if i pull the terminal off while its runnin, it should stay running, but its cuttin off, and idk if this has anything to do or help but an old guy i no told me to try that.

Im Basic startin from sratch, I bought the car not running, guy told me he blew the head gasket, well it was way more then that, so i had another 302 layin around so i transfered everything and it fired right up, no smokin or Knockin so i figured good engine to kick off from, And then my propblem started of it wantin to cut off and run the battterie dead, got tired of throwin parts at it that didnt fix anything so im tryin to see what yall think!
 

Mustang5L5

i'm familiar with penetration
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Feb 18, 2001
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Massachusetts
I see a lot of deleted stuff. Usually issues like you are having arrise when stuff is deleted off the engine improperly.

No smog pump, charcoal canister lines/wirng removed, EGR is prob dead, you have a BIG vacuum leak with the oil fill port line missing and wide open. Should be a line from the throttle body to the oil filler. It's gone, and only one side is plugged. At least cap the valve cover port, but ideally you want a vac line from there to throttle body


First step...run the check engine codes. No point guessing when the car will tell you exactly what is wrong.
 

curtisboytejr

Member
Mar 15, 2009
33
0
7
Leave it EFI, i have a 65 mustang and as soon as i get enough cash to get a stroker for my 93 conv, i'm putting this entire engine in my 65 with EFI and all.
 

Stever89

5 Year Member
Dec 14, 2009
536
9
39
Biloxi, MS
I'm older than most of y'all and I lean more towards carbs simply because I more familiar with them. My Mustang is carbed only because it came that way. If I was in your shoes I'd do whatever it took to keep it EFI.
 

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash
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Aug 10, 2002
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As far as the battery is concerned. How do you know it's good? Is it brand new? Have you taken it to have a stress test done on it? Many batteries on their way out will do well after an initial charge, but quickly fall off after a short period of time. Most places that sell batteries (NAPA, Pep Boys, etc) will be able to stress test the battery right in front of you and let you know for sure if it's any good.

If you know for a fact your battery is good, but it's running the battery dead regardless, then you may very well have a charging issue. It wouldn't hurt to test the alternator output. It's not uncommon for those older 75A models to go south. The one in the picture looks fairly new, but that could be polish and paint for all I know? Even if it's rebuilt, it's usually just brushes that are replaced in a lot of cases and there's a good chance that it's got the original voltage regulator.

Let me ask you...have you got a big thumping stereo system? Is it heavily amplified and have you got a capacitor wired into it? An already weak alternator/battery being continuously drawn on by a heavy hitting stereo system will cause all kinds of headaches.

Finally…how old is that IAC valve (the shiny cylindrical shaped thing bolted to your throttle body) on that thing? It looks shiny, but again I can’t tell if it’s new, or just a little polish and paint? They tend to gum up with carbon over time and stick. Pulling it off to visually inspect it and clean out any heavy deposits will often help with idle issues. If you’re careful, you may even be able to reuse the stock gasket.

These are all free tests that can be performed. No sense spending money if you don’t have to.
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
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So ive decided since i got the stuff to do it why not go carb, everyone i talk to says carbs easyier to work with any ways whats yalls opinion on the situation.
Start by never considering advice from any of these people ever again.
A carb doesn't fix problems, it creates them.

Me personally, i'd source out all stock parts and put it back together and start from there.
Beginning with the coil.
Also do as suggested above and check the alt, because that gold pulley suggests it's a piece of crap chain store unit.
 

jrichker

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Resolve whatever problems you have with the charging system first. After that dump the codes and fix them.

The cone air filter inside the engine compartment is a big no no. It sucks up hot engine air and the turbulence from the engine and fan mess up the airflow through the MAF. That messes up the air/fuel ratio, which makes the engine operation erratic. The stock airbox that pulls air from the inner fenderwell will deliever more power than what you currently have.

Never, never disconnect an alternator from the battery with the engine running. The resulting voltage spike can damage the car's electronics including the alternator.

Do all of these tests in sequence. Do not skip around. The results of each test depend on the results of the previous tests for correct interpretation.

Alternator troubleshooting for 86-95 5.0 Mustangs:
Engine off, ignition off, battery fully charged.
1.) Look for 12 volts at the alternator output. No 12 volts and the dark green fuse link between the orange/black wires and the battery side of the starter solenoid has open circuited.
3G alternator: Look for 12 volts at the stud on the back of the alternator where the 4 gauge power feed wire is bolted.
No voltage and the fuse for the 4 gauge power feed wire is open or there are some loose connections.

2.) Look for 12 volts on the yellow/white wire that is the power feed to the regulator. No 12 volts, and the fuse link for the yellow/white wire has open circuited.

Engine off, ignition on, battery fully charged.
1.) Alternator warning light should glow. No glow, bulb has burned out or there is a break in the wiring between the regulator plug and the dash. The warning light supplies an exciter voltage that tells the regulator to turn on. There is a 500 ohm resistor in parallel with the warning light so that if the bulb burns out, the regulator still gets the exciter voltage.
Disconnect the D connector with the 3 wires (yellow/white, white/black and green/red) from the voltage regulator.
Measure the voltage on the Lt green/red wire. It should be 12 volts. No 12 volts and the wire is broken, or the 500 ohm resistor and dash indicator lamp are bad. If the 12 volts is missing, replace the warning lamp. If after replacing the warning lamp, the test fails again, the wiring between the warning lamp and the alternator is faulty. The warning lamp circuit is part of the instrument panel and contains some connectors that may cause problems.

2.) Reconnect the D plug to the alternator
Probe the green/red wire from the rear of the connector and use the battery negative post as a ground. You should see 2.4-2.6 volts. No voltage and the previous tests passed, you have a failed regulator. This is an actual measurement taken from a car with a working electrical system.

Engine on, Ignition on, battery fully charged:
Probe the green/red wire from the rear of the connector and use the battery negative post as a ground. You should see battery voltage minus .25 to 1.0 volt. If the battery measured across the battery is 15.25 volts, you should see 14.50 volts

Familiarize yourself with the following application note from Fluke: See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .


You will need to do some voltage drop testing of several of the wires.

Start looking for these things:
1.) Bad diode(s) in the alternator - one or more diodes have open circuited and are causing the voltage to drop off as load increases. Remove the alternator and bench test it to confirm or deny this as being the problem.

2.) The secondary power ground is between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It is often missing or loose. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges. Do the voltage drop test as shown in the Fluke tech note link. Measure the voltage drop between the alternator frame and the battery negative post. Watch for an increase in drop as the load increases. Use the Fluke voltage drop figures as guidelines for your decisions.

3.) Bad regulator that does not increase field current as load increases. Remove the alternator and bench test it to confirm or deny this as being the problem.

4.) Bad sense wire - open circuit in sense wiring or high resistance. The yellow/white wire is the voltage sense and power for the field. There is a fuse link embedded in the wiring where it connects to the black/orange wiring that can open up and cause problems. Disconnect the battery negative cable from the battery: this will keep you from making sparks when you do the next step. Then disconnect the yellow/white wire at the alternator and the green fuse link at the starter solenoid/starter relay. Measure the resistance between the alternator end of the yellow/white wire and the green fuse link: you should see less than 1 ohm. Reconnect all the wires when you have completed this step.

5.) Bad power feed wiring from the alternator. Use caution in the next step, since you will need to do it with everything powered up and the engine running. You are going to do the Fluke voltage drop tests on the power feed wiring, fuse links and associated parts. Connect one DMM lead to the battery side of the starter solenoid/starter relay. Carefully probe the backside of the black/orange wire connector where it plugs into the alternator. With the engine off, you should see very little voltage. Start the engine and increase the load on the electrical system. Watch for an increase in drop as the load increases. Use the Fluke voltage drop figures as guidelines for your decisions.








Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 3-Jun-2011. Removed the link to BATAuto.com and troublecodes.net instructions on codes and how to dump them. Post the codes you get and I will post 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.





If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
 

smithsbroncster

New Member
Apr 28, 2011
22
0
0
Lincolnton, NC
As far as the battery is concerned. How do you know it's good? Is it brand new? Have you taken it to have a stress test done on it? Many batteries on their way out will do well after an initial charge, but quickly fall off after a short period of time. Most places that sell batteries (NAPA, Pep Boys, etc) will be able to stress test the battery right in front of you and let you know for sure if it's any good.

If you know for a fact your battery is good, but it's running the battery dead regardless, then you may very well have a charging issue. It wouldn't hurt to test the alternator output. It's not uncommon for those older 75A models to go south. The one in the picture looks fairly new, but that could be polish and paint for all I know? Even if it's rebuilt, it's usually just brushes that are replaced in a lot of cases and there's a good chance that it's got the original voltage regulator.

Let me ask you...have you got a big thumping stereo system? Is it heavily amplified and have you got a capacitor wired into it? An already weak alternator/battery being continuously drawn on by a heavy hitting stereo system will cause all kinds of headaches.

Finally…how old is that IAC valve (the shiny cylindrical shaped thing bolted to your throttle body) on that thing? It looks shiny, but again I can’t tell if it’s new, or just a little polish and paint? They tend to gum up with carbon over time and stick. Pulling it off to visually inspect it and clean out any heavy deposits will often help with idle issues. If you’re careful, you may even be able to reuse the stock gasket.

These are all free tests that can be performed. No sense spending money if you don’t have to.

The Batteries Brand new, plus had it tested and they said its still good.
Nope have all radio and everything unhooked, dont wanna hear no music just the music the engine makes
the guy that had it before me had tore it all apart and ive got it finaly put back together, theyve got wires cut and everything that should be gone deleted
 

smithsbroncster

New Member
Apr 28, 2011
22
0
0
Lincolnton, NC
I see a lot of deleted stuff. Usually issues like you are having arrise when stuff is deleted off the engine improperly.

No smog pump, charcoal canister lines/wirng removed, EGR is prob dead, you have a BIG vacuum leak with the oil fill port line missing and wide open. Should be a line from the throttle body to the oil filler. It's gone, and only one side is plugged. At least cap the valve cover port, but ideally you want a vac line from there to throttle body


First step...run the check engine codes. No point guessing when the car will tell you exactly what is wrong.
The guy that had it before me tore it apart and messed everything up, ive search and tried getting everything back the way it should be but still not all the way there
 

Bills89GT

Member
Jun 16, 2010
127
0
16
Canton CT
it looks as though the PO hacked it up a bit, based on the pics. if I were you I'd try and find a new wiring harness in a junk yard or online and put it back as close to stock as possible, then modify to YOUR preference. Who knows what has been chopped out of there. did you run the codes yet as suggested? that might help lead you to what's missing...

its a sweet looking car though. definitely worth getting back together the right way
 

smithsbroncster

New Member
Apr 28, 2011
22
0
0
Lincolnton, NC
it looks as though the PO hacked it up a bit, based on the pics. if I were you I'd try and find a new wiring harness in a junk yard or online and put it back as close to stock as possible, then modify to YOUR preference. Who knows what has been chopped out of there. did you run the codes yet as suggested? that might help lead you to what's missing...

its a sweet looking car though. definitely worth getting back together the right way
Havent ran the codes yet, been working all week so havent had the time.
but img oing to have it done this weekend hopefully.
would advance loan out a code reader or would i have to purchase one
 

Bills89GT

Member
Jun 16, 2010
127
0
16
Canton CT
there's no need for a code reader. jrichker has a sticky on the site here that says step by step how to do it. all you will need is a piece of wire and a test light or meter
 
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