1991 ECC Delete

[jrichker]

So thank you to all who replied. I am now rethinking my choices. Here is what I have already. 302 block bored .030, Scat stroker crank and associate piston and rods for a 347, 10-10.5:1 compression. TF Twisted Wedge 190r 56cc heads, TF Track max Stage 2 cam, Wahbro in-tank fuel pump, MAC equal length shorty headers, AOD transmission with TCI Street Fighter torque converter, Perf Auto Hold valve body, 4.10 gear set. We (my son and I) want the ability to add/change tunes depending on what we are doing with the car. We will do some weekend bracket racing, car cruises and daily driving. We don't want to have to pay a speed shop $$$ every time we want to change the tune. We are not fans of the giant hunk of aluminum Ford calls an intake manifold so we are looking at stand alone systems. I have looked at Fi-Tech, Holley and Edelbrock. Thoughts on intake, fuel injection and ECU are appreciated.

Evidently you haven't heard that "the giant hunk of aluminum Ford calls an intake manifold" has runners designed to to create a pressure wave that can pack the cylinders with more than 100% volumetric efficiency. The runner length is designed for a street car; loner runners work best at lower RPM and shorter runners work best at high RPM.

 

[2000xp8]

I think you might have been watching too much street outlaws.
You aren't goin to be "changing the tune" after it's done.
It's a NA stock block 347, you either got it right (which i'll bet the stock computer would beat you at) or you didn't.

Jrichker is right, the intake and cam determine where the power is.

 

[tubbaguts]

So I wish I could retract my original post. I was just trying to figure out a way to do a Foxbody in a different way that was more suited to my taste. I thought this forum was for helping fellow Foxbody owners talk about issue and problems in a constructive fashion and figure things out. Turn out it ends up being a place where if you are trying to do something folks have not done or don't agree on you just get bashed and insulted.

 

[jrichker]

So I wish I could retract my original post. I was just trying to figure out a way to do a Foxbody in a different way that was more suited to my taste. I thought this forum was for helping fellow Foxbody owners talk about issue and problems in a constructive fashion and figure things out. Turn out it ends up being a place where if you are trying to do something folks have not done or don't agree on you just get bashed and insulted.

The problem with your solution is support. When it doesn't work , the manufacturer's support team reads what is in their manual and that's all they have to go on. They often have very little in depth field experience and you can bet it isn't going to be with your particular setup. When something out of the ordinary goes wrong, they give you a scientific wild guess which probably won't be much help. After all, they have no skin invested in the process; if it doesn't work they shrug it off as a bad install or inexperienced owner.

As far as Stangnet goes, the SN Certified Technician says a lot about the background and ability of the person that holds it. I have been fixing cars since 1964 and 5.0 EFI Mustangs since 1991, and every time I give advice or help I have in investment in skin that goes along with it. I have been an active participant here at Stangnet since March 2000 and I put great value on my reputation as someone who gives some of the best advice and troubleshooting help you can find anywhere. I am certain that others who hold the SN Certified Technician title feel the same way about their advice and help.

The stock ECC is fully capable of doing what needs to be done by using either Tweecer or Motes Quarterhorse, and there are a lot of people that are using these systems. As a result, they can help with the unusual or unforeseen problems because they have firsthand experience with them.

@a91what proposed using a Mega Squirt solution and in the past he has generously offered to help others here on Stangnet with their Mega Squirt systems, tune and troubleshooting. Mega Squirt is a solution with a large number of users and an amazing degree of adaptability to various engines and tuning requirements. You can be assured that it is more than capable of meeting your needs.

 

[General karthief]

They don't mean to sound like that, in fact, after going back through the posts I found nothing to indicate any bashing or insulting, our members are some of the best on the net, most frequent several sites, work in auto dealerships and high tech electronics, computer programmers and build, tune and some race their junk, a couple here have had their cars in magazines. They will not steer you wrong. The thread began with installing a 'stand alone' efi setup that was developed for retrofitting on a car that was carb equipped. Your car already has efi wiring, fuel line and electronics capability for the parts you have listed, if you want 'tunability' a tweezer, motes or megasquirt system is designed around existing efi setups.
No one here said 'you should not do that' and even supplied a wiring diagram to help. But they did offer, in their opinion, a better system to go with (and less expensive) and your not rewiring or try'n to figure out ac or cruise control. I will add that the suggested systems take care of any future modifications.

 

[a91what]

Megasquirt has multiple cars running currently on this site
@FoxMustangLvr kenne bell blown 5.0
@bird_dog0347 5.0
@5.0Thunder 5.0
@CarMichael Angelo Aussie headed i6 with ITB setup
@hoopty5.0 turbo sbf
@90sickfox turbo sbf
And I missed a few I think
Oh and myself I sort of run the help thread I also offer tuning services, tech tips, advice.
My monstrosity of an experiment uses an Eaton m112 mounted like a blower should be. No distributor, everything from fans, shift light, methonal injection are triggered by the megasquirt.
Most of these cars I helped tune, all of them have support on this site from each other. If a problem comes up we all help to resolve it, this is what a proper car community does.
If you need advice on parts for a build or help tuning one we can do that.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I'll eventually Megasquirt my car as well. The support for that system is incredible.

 

[2000xp8]

So I wish I could retract my original post. I was just trying to figure out a way to do a Foxbody in a different way that was more suited to my taste. I thought this forum was for helping fellow Foxbody owners talk about issue and problems in a constructive fashion and figure things out. Turn out it ends up being a place where if you are trying to do something folks have not done or don't agree on you just get bashed and insulted.

It really has nothing to do with taste.
Taste is a set of wheels, maybe turbo or supercharger, paint color etc.

The problem is that your plan isn't good.

It's been layed out for you a few ways, but it doesn't seem like you want to hear it.

The setup you are building doesn't really need a tune period, it's a NA 347 built from a stock block.
The stock computer will easy run it without modification.
I ran a similar setup with a more aggressive cam and a more street friendly intake and it was fine.

You don't have any nitrous, supercharger or turbo's. So retuning would do pretty much nothing.
You suggested you wanted to be able to change tunes depending on what you do with the car, but there really is nothing to change.
Tuning doesn't help with the wrong parts.

If anything make the car run right on the stock computer then tweak it with one of the systems these guys can help you with.


Me personally, i'm trying to save you time, money and headaches. If you aren't interested in any of those things, fair enough i'll leave you be.

 

[5.0Thunder]

I'd agree that most, if not all the replies to this post, were genuinely aimed at trying to steer you in a more rational/logical direction with your build. I've personally seen hundreds of posts specifically detailing the removal of stock EEC and conversion to Standalone EFI.

It sounds like what your after is a way to fully control the tune on your car in the event of parts changes, track conditions, etc.

- This CAN be done with stock EEC, and very successfully for builds like yours (non-boosted, 500hp or lower) by using the above mentioned Moates or Tweecer systems and a better maf sensor.

- It can also be done with plug-n-play standalone systems like Megasquirt (from DIYAutotune, Stinger Performance, EFI Source) or AEM, where you literally unplug the stock computer, plug the standalone computer in to the stock plug, run a vacuum line and wideband, then start tuning any engine parameter with your laptop. Standalones will allow you to basically control any engine, or do anything with your engine and still be able to tune. Turbos? ITB's? Staged/stacked injection? flex fuel? Yes.

- There are also standalone "drop-on" systems that come with the new ECU AND a full harness, such as what you'd get with PRO-M, Holley EFI, Big Stuff, or the older FAST systems. These are functionally similar to the plug-n-play systems but you get a new harness (and pay a bunch for it typically). This is an advantage because our old stock harnesses are becoming brittle and problematic.

Looking at the pro flo setup, I'd say it is similar to a Drop On standalone system. It just comes with the intake manifold and throttle body as well, so I'd say sure, it'll probably work fine if you're really wanting it. The big thing I'm not liking is how few people use them. It'd might be pretty hard to find your "tips and tricks" with this system since there aren't many users. Lots of people use the above systems (Moates, Tweecer, Holley, Megasquirt, etc.) so there is a huge knowledge base and forum presence that could help you figure things out and tune properly. This is a big reason why the other members of this forum are pushing these options.

I personally own two boosted cars with megasquirt (one turbo and one old school roots blown) and have tuned dozens of other peoples cars. I'll soon be tuning an 88mm turbo methanol burning LS setup in a 25.3 small tire drag car with the MS3Pro system. I initially chose megasquirt because of ease of installation, nearly infinite control over your engine, knowledge base, and price. Considering all of these things, it can't be beat.

If you decide to go with the Edelbrock system, we will still be here to help out if you have general tuning questions. Just don't expect us to know exactly how to navigate the software or offer troubleshooting advice with the electronics.

 

[NIKwoaC]

Man this one went off the rails.

Mr. OP, if you're still reading this, www.veryuseful.com has some pretty great, easy-to-read and navigate wiring diagrams.