1995 Mustang GT Megasquirt Timing and ignition settings question

Nov 23, 2019
26
6
13
39
Ohio
I was able to get my car started and it idles (somewhat) meaning I can hold a decent AFR without my foot on the throttle, this will require some more fine tuning. OK, so I my main question has to do with getting my timing set correctly. I restabbed my distributor at 0 degrees. I confirmed with a bore scope because my balancer had several sets of marks. Car fired up and I let it get to temp and began to tune the idle. I went out with the timing light to align the marks with my balancer. Marks were oscillating all over the place. I remember that when I set the timing before the Megasquirt upgrade I pulled the SPOUT. Well the car will not run with the SPOUT out. I watched a video from a member and he says I do not need to pull the spout to set the timing. Fair enough. I contacted the guy who sold me the ECM and he told me that the last car he did that did not run with the SPOUT out he had to rewire the car because it had the incorrect wiring harness. That doesnt seem to be accurate to me. Here is what I found because Fox cars are not the same as the 94-95 cars. https://www.corral.net/threads/timing-way-too-advanced.1411496/page-2 I set the settings to his, but I could not find all of them like (acceleration compensation and maximum dwell.) Where are they in tuner studio?? Anyways I am just wanting to know how I can get my timing from oscillating. Can anyone assist me with this and make sure I have the correct ignition settings?
 
  • Sponsors(?)


a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,196
6,105
204
31
Hillsborough county
ignition settings> ignition options / wheel decoder > [top right of the page] set fixed advance to fixed the set the fixed timing value below.

fox cars with the grey TFI, set dwell type to standard duty at 50%. the ecu cannot control the dwell because the TFI does that internally.
For the Black TFI on the later cars nominal dwell 3ms and spark duration 1ms.

you would do well to go onto msextra and read the manuals. or use the tool tips in the software.
 
Nov 23, 2019
26
6
13
39
Ohio
ignition settings> ignition options / wheel decoder > [top right of the page] set fixed advance to fixed the set the fixed timing value below.

fox cars with the grey TFI, set dwell type to standard duty at 50%. the ecu cannot control the dwell because the TFI does that internally.
For the Black TFI on the later cars nominal dwell 3ms and spark duration 1ms.

you would do well to go onto msextra and read the manuals. or use the tool tips in the software.
to be honest, I didn't even know there was a manual like that besides the one that came in the box with my Megasquirt ECM. So thank you for the tip which I will pass on to others.
 
Last edited:
Nov 23, 2019
26
6
13
39
Ohio
After trying those settings and reading that section of the manual, am I missing anything else as far setting base timing? Timing jumps all the way from 0 degrees past 20 degrees when looking at it with a timing light. Still no spark with spout unplugged.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,196
6,105
204
31
Hillsborough county
You wont get any spark with the spout unplugged. You lock the timing in TS and set the offset to 10*
Then adjust the distributor until you get you locked timing value
 
Nov 23, 2019
26
6
13
39
Ohio
You wont get any spark with the spout unplugged. You lock the timing in TS and set the offset to 10*
Then adjust the distributor until you get you locked timing value
Good grief! You mean all of the years I spent learning to troubleshoot these systems and timing these engines is worth nothing now. Let me run the steps by you on what I should do.

1. Under ignition settings - Timing for fixed or advanced for degrees set at 20.
2. Under ignition settings - Trigger angle/off set degrees - set at 10
3. Under hood at distributor - adjust the distributor until I am at 20 degrees and tighten the bolt. Then I will be good to go and the marks wont fluctuate?

Does all of this look correct??

1589748336433.png
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,196
6,105
204
31
Hillsborough county
If this is a microsquirt, the output needs to be set going low. Going high will give an erratic timing value in this application
 
Nov 23, 2019
26
6
13
39
Ohio
If this is a microsquirt, the output needs to be set going low. Going high will give an erratic timing value in this application
It’s a MSPNP2. So the let me make sure I understand their lingo here. You’re a controls guy so you’ll understand this. So there are certain instances where we program outputs to “fire” on a negative edge triggered pulse (I program with Mitsubishi PLCs), is the “falling edge” they are referring to the same here?
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,196
6,105
204
31
Hillsborough county
There is alot wrong if that is a ms2pnp.

Why is the cam input set to map? Why is the ign output set on wled? I can understand if you are firing an msd box directly but if you are trying to use the standard ms2pnp harness output it needs to be set to ign out.
It seems to me you have either started with an incorrect tune file, gotten some misinformation, or interpreted information incorrectly.

Post the tune file please

Yes rising or falling edge of an input, the negative side of a ac wave in this case.
 
Nov 23, 2019
26
6
13
39
Ohio
There is alot wrong if that is a ms2pnp.

Why is the cam input set to map? Why is the ign output set on wled? I can understand if you are firing an msd box directly but if you are trying to use the standard ms2pnp harness output it needs to be set to ign out.
It seems to me you have either started with an incorrect tune file, gotten some misinformation, or interpreted information incorrectly.

Post the tune file please

Yes rising or falling edge of an input, the negative side of a ac wave in this case.
Awesome thank you for the clarification. The cam input and the WLED setting I was told was what was needed since this a 1995 car and not a Fox setup for the Megasquirt MSPNP. I will post the tune file once I get home. Let me know the changes you make and why if you would please. I am never going to understand and learn if someone just does it for me. Thank you in advance.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,196
6,105
204
31
Hillsborough county
Just like I thought, WLED is the ign output for a microsquirt pnp NOT the MS2pnp unless you are triggering a MSD box directly. using the factory harness the ign output needs to be set to IGN1 and going High.

Also you will want to set the incorporate AFR before you begin any major tuning.
 
Nov 23, 2019
26
6
13
39
Ohio
Just like I thought, WLED is the ign output for a microsquirt pnp NOT the MS2pnp unless you are triggering a MSD box directly. using the factory harness the ign output needs to be set to IGN1 and going High.

Also you will want to set the incorporate AFR before you begin any major tuning.
Awesome!! Thank you for the clarification on this. No MSD box, just the factory setup. I will go back and set the ignition settings on this when I get home.
But can you see anything that I have setup that would cause my timing to not stay fixed?? When trying to dial the timing in it keeps moving around. With the factory ECM I just pulled the SPOUT, set the timing then plugged the SPOUT back in then let the TFI module take over. But I’ve been told by you and DIY auto tune that you don’t remove the SPOUT.
 

lamrith

Founding Member
Jun 7, 2000
1,383
1
38
Tacoma, WA
www.mgbconversions.com
Wow, incredible timing on this thread<pun intended>. I am struggling with a MSPnPGen2 as well. Glad to see I am not the only one with Spout out no run, I had folks on a MS group saying to pull it to set timing and was scratching my head as doing that I had no spark.

I have a 393W build going into my 94GT and I have not been able to get it to fire just yet, but reading about the fixed timing above I will try that.
 

seijirou

Founding Member
Aug 15, 2002
2,416
3
48
39
DFW
You can do it either way. SPOUT out is more familiar for people and faster too. You either set base timing just like you do with a factory ECU with SPOUT out and just tell Megasquirt what the trigger angle/offset is (because trigger angle = base timing) then put the SPOUT back in and you're done. Or you leave SPOUT in, set fixed timing, and play with the trigger wizard until commanded timing = measured timing, then you need to go back and set use table again. It will probably take you longer to get there playing with the trigger wizard, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter which technique you use, they both lead to the same place.
 

seijirou

Founding Member
Aug 15, 2002
2,416
3
48
39
DFW
Like others have said....mine wouldnt run with the spout out
That will happen if the base timing is very low. I've set base timing to -10 on turbo cars that still ran TFI or EDIS so that they could use anti-lag, those won't idle with the spout disconnected.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Electrical 1995 Mustang GT slight hiccups/hesitation at around 2k rpm looking for a fix for the dreaded code 212 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 2
C New with a 1995 Mustang GT 302 V8 that needs a lot of love. 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 3
S 1995 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 - Electrical Issues - Need Help! 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 2
D 1995 mustang gt 5.0 Need help please! 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 8
R 1995 Mustang power window does not work. 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- 0
C 1995 Mustang 5.0 HO standalone harness 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 14
beyondEOD SN95 94-95 Microsquirt Pinouts Digital Self-tuning Forum 8
C 1995 Mustang 347 - Thank You! 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 0
C 1995 Mustang Vent Line 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 5
beyondEOD 94-95 Mustang 5.0 AODE MS3 Gold Box w/ Microsquirt Digital Self-tuning Forum 62
S Fuel 1995 stock Mustang EFI vs aftermarket TBI or Edelbrock injection? Jag Project Car Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 13
T 1995 Explorer intake on 1994 Mustang GT 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 4
T 1995 mustang overheating BAD!! 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 33
H 1995 Mustang GT convertible interior lights The Welcome Wagon 7
Z 1995 Mustang GT 5spd 302 The Welcome Wagon 3
B 1995 Mustang Gt ABS light 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 7
E New member with a 1995 Mustang GT 5.0 question 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 2
P Engine Mustang 1995 GT - RPM fluctuating while driving and surging 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 20
9 1995 Mustang convertible Interior Electronic Issues 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 0
starstruck106 Car overheated and now it won't turn over - help PLEASE 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 51
C ISO RED STEERING WHEEL - 1995 GTS Interior Exterior Parts 0
A 1995 Mustang Cobra Radiator Fan operating only when A/C is on AND only for a few seconds! 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 1
C Help needed 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 4
starstruck106 Need Help 1995 Convertible 3.8 Temp Gauge still not working and alarm system is draining my battery 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 11
S 1995 mustang Gt budget build!!! 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 13
DrSmart 94 GT Convertible Speedo Electrical Issue SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech 0
S Exhaust 1995 ford mustang gt 5.0 header question 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 7
S 1995 mustang gt 5.0 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 4
JWINSOCAL For Sale 1995 GT Convertable For Sale SN95 Mustangs For Sale (1994-04) 0
B Please help me with my 1995 Mustang GT 5.0 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 14
9 Should I get this 1995 mustang gt 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 22
J 1995 mustang gt 5.0L 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 5
Adams_199 Electrical 1995 mustang cobra 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 4
DAGGER1120 1995 mustang GT after awhile of driving when I come to a stop my RPMs go low and sometimes vehicle stalls 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 2
ebowie 1995 mustang gt brake upgrade to cobra brakes 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 5
B 1995 Ford Mustang Gt 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 2
S 1995 mustang gt 5.0 coupe 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 8
C 1995 ford mustang temperature gauge problem 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 0
B 1995 Mustang GT Won't Idle when warm and Runs out of fuel cornering? Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 3
B 95 Mustang GT power loss RPM issue 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- 0
1 Engine 1995 Mustang GT 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 0
E For Sale 1995 Mustang GT Convertible Project Car, Georgia SN95 Mustangs For Sale (1994-04) 1
K 1995 mustang v6 surging 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 2
S Fuel 1995 mustang GT 5.0L fuel electrical 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 1
BigE85 1995 Mustang GT 5.0 H0 How to set stock valves 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 2
Justin Fetalvero 1995 Mustang GT Auto To Manual Swap From 99 GT 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- 4
S 1995 mustang gt anderson pms problems 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 1
S 1995 mustang anderson tuner Digital Self-tuning Forum 0
T For Sale 1995 Mustang Convertible Gt 5.0 For Sale In West Palm Beach SN95 Mustangs For Sale (1994-04) 2
T SN95 Sn95 351w Swap To 408 Stroker 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 19
Similar threads