HAHA good point I don't know how it'll measure to an 05 GT, no one's ever driven one, but since everyone else wants to compare the STi to a Cobra because of price, I thought i'd just point out some pros and cons. The 05 GT vs STi or Evo can go either way i guess, we'll just have to wait and see but i know there will be times where I'll see a striped mustang coming down the road and wish I had one of those things instead based on styling alone. I owned a box with a very powerful engine inside. But I must say its a very nice looking box.
2005 Mustang or Subaru WRX STi
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wjfawb0
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I had brochures on the STi before they were being sold in the US. I was considering both the STi and the 03 Cobra. I ended up buying the Cobra because most of my driving is interstate. I would still like to have an STi or similar AWD some day, though. I liked the STi over the EVO stock for stock because of:
limited slip rear and front differential
driver controlled center differential
6 speed tranny
2.5L H4
no radio for the first year (most people can put together a better stereo than the factory for $600)
The STi has a completely different drivetrain than a WRX. Better wheels, beefier axles and differentials and a better tranny. Mods for the EVO seem to be more readily available, but I am sure the STi will pick up with time.
The Cobra was better for me for raw HP and straight line speed.
-Jason
limited slip rear and front differential
driver controlled center differential
6 speed tranny
2.5L H4
no radio for the first year (most people can put together a better stereo than the factory for $600)
The STi has a completely different drivetrain than a WRX. Better wheels, beefier axles and differentials and a better tranny. Mods for the EVO seem to be more readily available, but I am sure the STi will pick up with time.
The Cobra was better for me for raw HP and straight line speed.
-Jason
SVTdriver
Founding Member
Alfred___P said:
Nice stable!!! As for the handling, everything I've read points to the '05 as being a much better handler than previous years. I'm in no rush right now, and won't be deciding until next summer. By then, the strengths and weaknesses of the '05 will be out there. Right now it's all speculation...Sxhawnn said:
I really like the EVO, but it has tranny issues similar to the WRX. The STi tranny is the best available for the awd supercars right now. Also, the additional 0.5L of displacement is very appealing. More torque, and more potential for insane power once the aftermarket catches up (just about there now...).
blazinsteed
New Member
also something to consider is the evo only gets a 12k limited warranty and parts are expensive. To me for all their performance they are just boxes that have had everything stripped. Not for me but I am not the one potentially paying for either.
Well its a tough choice. The WRX and the new Stang are on opposite sides of the automotive spectrum. I myself and trying to decide between an Evo, a new Stang, or a Mazda RX-8. I keep coming back to the Mustang because of its great looks and old fashioned, butt kicking muscle. I live near a nice track (Summit Point, WV) and I would rather take the Mustang on it than any of the other cars. I also worry about the long term durability of 2.0 liter, 300 HP cars. 
Reimann
Puss > me
I think the RX-8 is the young family man's (or woman's) sports car and is aimed at a different market then the Mustangs are. It has more room in the back and doesn't have that neck snapping acceleration (so you don't break your kid's necks!). If I had kids I might consider one a little more seriously but I liked the RX-8 I test drove. The body styling is all over the place though. They need to refine it somewhat.
Rootus
Officially Addicted
The RX-8 is aimed waaaaaaaaay differently than the Mustang -- people who get the RX-8 want handling above all else. People who get the Mustang want acceleration.
peyotesands
New Member
Z28x said:STI sucks in the snow, unless you put on 4 snow tires.
Mustang GT will be about $6,000 cheaper. For $32K the STI doesn't even come with a radiothat is a $600 dealer installed option.
a 32k car without a radio? bhahahahahahha.... I'll easily take a Mustang over that butt-ugly wrx any day of the week. It's junk. it's a damn outback is all it is. i don't care if it is AWD, turbocharged and has a functional blah blah blah.. it's a dorky looking pile of trash. I'll take a 350z over that sti heap any day of the week if I ever just could not live without a rice mobile.
PS: there's a grotesque s h i t picture in one of the top 3 threads as of now... just htought I'd mention it.
mball said:I would stay away from the RX-8, have you driven one yet? I just test drove one latley and they are so damn slow. 0-60 in 6.4 and the 1/4 mile in the low 14'sNo power at all in 1st and little in 2nd gear, its almost like it has turbo lag but there is no turbo, very weak car.
That's pretty narrow thinking if you judge the value of a car strictly on it's straight-line performance. I can appreciate any car if it performs it's intended mission. In this case, it's handling. The RX-8 is an exceptional handling car that actually does fairly decent in a straight line (certainly not the best but decent). Mazda's have never been about big power. They've always been handling cars.
And, before you ask, yes I have driven an RX-8.
SVTdriver
Founding Member
The WRX STI is not an outback it is an impreza. As far as the great handling of the rx-8. If I go slow enough my mustang handles great as well.
Great car. I actually test drove one the same time I got my WRX. Faster car than my WRX, handled quicker--not necessarily better--but quicker. You really need to drive one. Many on other boards have categorized it as "a rocket powered go-cart." Compared to the Subies, it felt cheaper. If it were the same price as the WRX, I would have gotten the EVO instead. For 3-4k more, though, I didn't think it was worth it. At that point, I would go the extra 3k and get the STi.
I keep coming back to the Mustang, though. Something about the sheer power of the V8. You just don't get the neck snapping acceleration in the 4-bangers.
I keep coming back to the Mustang, though. Something about the sheer power of the V8. You just don't get the neck snapping acceleration in the 4-bangers.
Evo has paint chip problems... They kept cost down and they did that really well by limiting on the paint. The people on the evo forums said they experience this on the edge of the rear doors (because of alignment issues of the doors), hood, and bumper. You can't race in SCCA (sp?) tracks or they void your warranty.
STI has a great tranny compared to the wrx but not that great overall. The WRX suffered from "glass tranny" from either clutch dumping, chassy flex, or just regular driving! Dealers avoid fixing this problem by saying "you raced" even if you didn't, so it comes out of your pocket to fix. STI tranny is stronger but still no dump clutching with the awd. Top speed has been noticed to be slightly less capable then the evo engine which has .5 displacement less.
Subaru legacy, this car is luxory sti. Cheaper than the STI but needs a bigger turbo. Same potential as the STI, but more pimpin. It'll probably a lil more expensive than the STI to get the same numbers, but for the added package, I think it's worth it.
Don't know about the stangs, but I would like to get one soon.
SRT-4! Great car for a 4 banger. Affordable, powerful with stock engine. Turbo upgrade and fuel upgrade can net over 350whp. Although FWD and lacks power rear windows. Also suffers from wheel hop. New motor mounts and rear power window kit can solve those problems (except the FWD). Torque steer has been said on the forums to be minimal compared to alot of cars out there.
RX-8 is not a car in the same category. It's for the looks only and maybe handaling. Aftermarket is building way slow, engine does not have potential. So if speed is your thing, stay away from this overpriced car.
350z and G35, I believe is a mix between a stang and a STI or EVo. RWD with really high potential. Interior is not too flimsy and has great handaling. People have gotten over 400whp with the twin turbo kits out with stock engine except for aftermarket cams.
If money for modding wasn't the issue, I would go for a stang or a 350z/g35. If your not going to mod it and want an overall fun car out of the box, I say get a STI. If you can wait, get an Audi A3, 4 door hatchback, Quattro, 2.0 turbo. A4's are putting around 250 whp to the ground, probably get a little higher with .2 displacement more. Audi engines are built like rocks, just everything else seems to breakdown with their cars.
STI has a great tranny compared to the wrx but not that great overall. The WRX suffered from "glass tranny" from either clutch dumping, chassy flex, or just regular driving! Dealers avoid fixing this problem by saying "you raced" even if you didn't, so it comes out of your pocket to fix. STI tranny is stronger but still no dump clutching with the awd. Top speed has been noticed to be slightly less capable then the evo engine which has .5 displacement less.
Subaru legacy, this car is luxory sti. Cheaper than the STI but needs a bigger turbo. Same potential as the STI, but more pimpin. It'll probably a lil more expensive than the STI to get the same numbers, but for the added package, I think it's worth it.
Don't know about the stangs, but I would like to get one soon.
SRT-4! Great car for a 4 banger. Affordable, powerful with stock engine. Turbo upgrade and fuel upgrade can net over 350whp. Although FWD and lacks power rear windows. Also suffers from wheel hop. New motor mounts and rear power window kit can solve those problems (except the FWD). Torque steer has been said on the forums to be minimal compared to alot of cars out there.
RX-8 is not a car in the same category. It's for the looks only and maybe handaling. Aftermarket is building way slow, engine does not have potential. So if speed is your thing, stay away from this overpriced car.
350z and G35, I believe is a mix between a stang and a STI or EVo. RWD with really high potential. Interior is not too flimsy and has great handaling. People have gotten over 400whp with the twin turbo kits out with stock engine except for aftermarket cams.
If money for modding wasn't the issue, I would go for a stang or a 350z/g35. If your not going to mod it and want an overall fun car out of the box, I say get a STI. If you can wait, get an Audi A3, 4 door hatchback, Quattro, 2.0 turbo. A4's are putting around 250 whp to the ground, probably get a little higher with .2 displacement more. Audi engines are built like rocks, just everything else seems to breakdown with their cars.
Just a couple of comments.
SRT-4 People are hitting 12's and 300whp on stock turbo and internals. 12's with 1K-2K worth of mods. With an aftermarket turbo the engine has hit 500whp on stock internals.
RX-8 It's awful slow in a straight line, once the engine is wound up it's not as bad. Like the Miata, on a road course it is regarded as one of the best handling cars out there and is very easy to drive fast. It will embarass a lot of cars around the track that are faster in a straight line. For you to say the engine has no potential you must not be familiar with rotaries. It's still a version of the 13B which mazda has turbo'd in the past and many drag racers use to make 7 second monsters. Ever seen a Starlet hold a wheelstand down a track, at 11,000+ RPMs, while running 8's, 9's? Most chances are it's powered by a turbo 1.3L Rotary. The Renesis is just the newest incarnation of the motor and very few drag racers are using it. It's a new motor thats in an expensive car, I doubt you or many others know the potential of this motor. Another thing you should keep in mind is that it was detuned in our market for emissions regulations.
350Z/G35- At 287hp, in a small 2 seater, its an embarassment that this car is barely a low 14 second car. Most times I've seen are in the mid 14's anyway. There is a guy around the way that has the Greddy Twin Turbo kit for it, but it's still not that fast. A stock turbo SRT-4 was neck and neck with him. The TT 350z isn't tuned but neither is the SRT-4. The nissan is a nice car with a good aftermarket, good looks, and decent athletics around a track, but it underachieves in my book. I blame it on these damn Turbo 4's! They are forcing everyone to pack some serious HP.
Audi/VW(Turbo's only) None of the 2.0T's are available in our market yet. A4's currently only have 1.8T's, and as nice as the 1.8T is, it's very limited. 250whp on the stock turbo is a myth. Even with the K04 from the TT, the most you'll see is about 225whp. I'm on the lightest platform(GTI) you can get a 1.8T in. It's the 180hp K03(s). On the stock turbo it's easy to hit 13's, if you want 12's you are going to have to drop some change(turbo kit) and the audi's are heavy. The S4 is a different story, if you can find the older 2.7L Biturbo you can build a beast out of that. The current ones come with small V8's but are still pretty quick, but very pricey. The audi's are heavy as hell and pricey and about the 2.0T's that you speak of. It's going to be a while before the aftermarket picks up on those. I would expect them to see them in the Mk5 GTI's before we see them in the Audi's. Also the aftermarket is going to take a while with such a new motor and considering the amount of time it took to crack the ecu for the 1.8T, I would assume the same for the 2.0T. One point I agree with you though, VW/Audi engines are built like rocks but nothing else seems to go right. Every one of these problems happend with less than 10K on the odo. My (03)GTI's 5-speed(manual) tranny went, my friends 03 GTI needed the turbo replaced, another friends 02 GTI broke an axle, and my friend with the R32 that he has had for a couple of months just replaced his head gasket. Plus VWOA is in financial trouble and their customer support is piss poor. They will do anything to get out of warranty work. Until the 2.0T is in a lot more cars and we can see its potential with the tuners I would stay away from it.
SRT-4 People are hitting 12's and 300whp on stock turbo and internals. 12's with 1K-2K worth of mods. With an aftermarket turbo the engine has hit 500whp on stock internals.
RX-8 It's awful slow in a straight line, once the engine is wound up it's not as bad. Like the Miata, on a road course it is regarded as one of the best handling cars out there and is very easy to drive fast. It will embarass a lot of cars around the track that are faster in a straight line. For you to say the engine has no potential you must not be familiar with rotaries. It's still a version of the 13B which mazda has turbo'd in the past and many drag racers use to make 7 second monsters. Ever seen a Starlet hold a wheelstand down a track, at 11,000+ RPMs, while running 8's, 9's? Most chances are it's powered by a turbo 1.3L Rotary. The Renesis is just the newest incarnation of the motor and very few drag racers are using it. It's a new motor thats in an expensive car, I doubt you or many others know the potential of this motor. Another thing you should keep in mind is that it was detuned in our market for emissions regulations.
350Z/G35- At 287hp, in a small 2 seater, its an embarassment that this car is barely a low 14 second car. Most times I've seen are in the mid 14's anyway. There is a guy around the way that has the Greddy Twin Turbo kit for it, but it's still not that fast. A stock turbo SRT-4 was neck and neck with him. The TT 350z isn't tuned but neither is the SRT-4. The nissan is a nice car with a good aftermarket, good looks, and decent athletics around a track, but it underachieves in my book. I blame it on these damn Turbo 4's! They are forcing everyone to pack some serious HP.
Audi/VW(Turbo's only) None of the 2.0T's are available in our market yet. A4's currently only have 1.8T's, and as nice as the 1.8T is, it's very limited. 250whp on the stock turbo is a myth. Even with the K04 from the TT, the most you'll see is about 225whp. I'm on the lightest platform(GTI) you can get a 1.8T in. It's the 180hp K03(s). On the stock turbo it's easy to hit 13's, if you want 12's you are going to have to drop some change(turbo kit) and the audi's are heavy. The S4 is a different story, if you can find the older 2.7L Biturbo you can build a beast out of that. The current ones come with small V8's but are still pretty quick, but very pricey. The audi's are heavy as hell and pricey and about the 2.0T's that you speak of. It's going to be a while before the aftermarket picks up on those. I would expect them to see them in the Mk5 GTI's before we see them in the Audi's. Also the aftermarket is going to take a while with such a new motor and considering the amount of time it took to crack the ecu for the 1.8T, I would assume the same for the 2.0T. One point I agree with you though, VW/Audi engines are built like rocks but nothing else seems to go right. Every one of these problems happend with less than 10K on the odo. My (03)GTI's 5-speed(manual) tranny went, my friends 03 GTI needed the turbo replaced, another friends 02 GTI broke an axle, and my friend with the R32 that he has had for a couple of months just replaced his head gasket. Plus VWOA is in financial trouble and their customer support is piss poor. They will do anything to get out of warranty work. Until the 2.0T is in a lot more cars and we can see its potential with the tuners I would stay away from it.
SVTdriver
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